JohnBurke

You don't understand the regulation, and your statement is false.

If the operator builds rest time after notification into the callout time, then it's perfectly legal, and this is used by Part 135 and 121 operators on a regular basis today.

If a pilot will have legal rest built in after receiving the phone call, then it doens't matter if he's on call for 24 hours non-stop: the pilot is only required to show rest prior to duty, and if the callout stipulates that rest begins after the phone call, with duty to follow, it's quite legal, and is a common, FAA-approved practice.

You do not know this?

SonicFlyer

The administrative interpretation of the regulations say differently, specifically that there must be a look back period and prospective. If you look at the administrative case law on it, you'll see why he is saying this and why BA would likely be found in violation of the interpretations, if it were ever brought that far. So far no one seems to care enough to get a judgement on it.

For anyone who wants to look it up, here are the relevant documents to search for:

FAA Legal Interpretation Of 135.267

Berry - 2009
Kinger - 2012
Masterson - 2013
Mayors - 2009
Orellana - 2015

Continuingappch

So, call me at 0000 and tell me I need to show at 0900. Perfect. But is this what Berry - and IFL &c. - are actually doing?

JulesWinfield

You are correct. That isn't want Berry does. Berry calls you at 2 am and says you have to be there in 30 minutes. It’s a 24 hour on call operation.

QRH Bingo

Bingo.

Filler.

JohnBurke

Yes, I know.

dera

So why put your certificate on the line for this? Only needs one POI to change their mind, and you are risking certificate action for accepting illegal duty, which this obviously is.

You can be on call 24/7 as long as the "call" you get gives you the required minimum rest before starting a duty period. "we didn't call you so you were in rest" is not rest. FAA Chief Counsel has beaten that dead horse to the ground multiple times.

QRH Bingo

My certificate is doing just fine.
So too is the Pilot who has been active with Berry since practically Day 1.

Venkman

Operators will always attempt to split hairs in all kinds of ways but it's actually really simple.

You cannot legally be in rest and on short-call simultaneously. To accept a duty assignment, the pilot would need to show at least 10 hours of rest in the 24-hour period preceding the planned end of the duty assignment. 10-in-24 lookback. The FAA goes on to define what constitutes "rest" for the purposes of this lookback: Valid rest must meet all 3 of these criteria: 1) A continuous, uninterrupted period of time (4 hours here and 6 hours there is not 10 hours of rest) 2) Must be known prospectively (oh looks like you didn't get called for the last 12 hours, that was your rest! Nuh-uh...) 3) Free from all obligation to the certificate holder. Can I turn off my phone for 10 hours without without a problem? The answer should be yes. If not, then I wasn't free from obligation to the company and thus not in rest. Whether or not I answer is up to me, but if I'll get in trouble for not picking up the phone during my required rest period, guess what? That ain't rest.

If you want me on call, I need to know when that window begins and ends ahead of time, it can't be for a period exceeding 14 hours, and at the end of that 14 hours I better be able to ignore calls until my on call period begins again. Badger and threaten all you want. I can get a new job a lot easier than a new certificate, and you're just giving me a free TMAAT story for my next interview.

JohnBurke

There are those operators, and those pilots who work for those operators, who do not require the pilot to answer the phone. The pilot has 24 hours a day of rest. If the pilot chooses to go to work that day, and if the pilot wishes to make money that day, he may choose to answer the phone; one call doesn't interrupt rest (in all cases), as established long ago. If the pilot does not answer his phone, another pilot may be called. The pilot might accept an assignment in thirty minutes, or in thirty hours, as may be; another long-used method, and for some it works. It also meets legal requirements.

It is incorrect to assume that one cannot be on call and at rest; one can, depending on how the rest and call is arranged. If one does not have a present duty to act for the company, one is not on duty, and it does not interrupt rest.