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Old 01-03-2019, 05:40 PM   #4861  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Part135Flyer View Post
The company instructor made it clear to us that AMF desires to train
the best Brasilia pilots in the world. A lofty goal, to be sure. There is certainly
quite a bit to cover in the class in the time allotted. We were told that some
students, who were rated in the aircraft with thousands of hours in it, had
said that they had never been instructed in such detail before at their previous
carriers. It is AMF’s desire to teach you how to ‘disassemble’ the systems
because the Brasilia is a complicated, older aircraft. Yet, in flight, if there is
an issue, aside from a few memory items, all actions after those items have been performed will be followed per the QRH, which you will learn how to navigate since some guidance may not be logically presented (i.e. single-engine landing after
engine fire)

As a pilot for AMF, since they operate under Part 135, you will be relied upon to obtain your own weather (your flight plans are usually already on file with Center), to be in control of how your aircraft is loaded (you will need to be there while that is done), and that’s in addition to pre-flighting the aircraft and making sure it is properly fueled, and checking that maintenance items have been properly addressed.

Before leaving for initial Indoc training, the company will send you a box of information that includes a large portion of the airplane flight manual, two smaller binders (general ops manual and an SOP for the airplane), and large posters of the cockpit layout. There will also be a letter that states that you should know the flows, memory items and systems before coming to class. The more that you study before getting there, the better the aircraft-specific class will go for you.

This may be an eye-opener for some of you (especially if you are coming from
positions with Part 121 carriers). The Part 121 dispatcher figured out for you
all the aircraft weights for takeoff alternates, destinations and landing alternates, then decided which landing weight was the most restrictive, then told you what
the payload would be, and what the CG was, along with V speeds for takeoff and landing. Then you received the package, reviewed it, and then you departed on your way. However, at AMF, all of those computations will have to be figured out by hand (even though it is otherwise accepted industry-wide to use computers or iPads to do this), keeping in mind, differences in altimeter settings, winds, deferred MEL items, etc. The SOP has a chapter that somewhat addresses this, but it doesn’t go into the details about exactly HOW to do it. For practice, at the end of the day, for homework, we were given the basic information for a fictitious flight and the forms and left to our own devices in coming up with the answers that were needed. Some in the class caught on earlier than others on how to come to the satisfactory conclusions, while others had difficulties. The problem is, you may not get the answer you need going from “A to Z”…the process may go from Z to N to Z to B, etc.
That sounds like how most quality 135 IFR companies work and train their pilots.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:27 PM   #4862  
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I wonder why they expect you to be able to 'take apart the systems'

As a P135 pilot - you probably won't be allowed to reset a CB without maintenance guidance.

As far as emergencies. follow the POH - step by step.

Certainly doesn't sound spoon fed, but if many lower time pilots have succeeded before you, I'm sure that you will be up to the task at hand if you put forth the effort.
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:50 AM   #4863  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Part135Flyer View Post
I completed six weeks of training with Ameriflight (AMF) and would like to pass along some information regarding that training. I want to start by saying that I am not one to criticize one way or the other the manner in which their ground training was conducted. All I desire to do is to pass along what I experienced, some suggestions for improvement that I would have liked to have seen that would have made my experience more fruitful, and wish you the best of luck if you get hired and are to be trained in the same aircraft as I was (the EMB-120 Brasilia). I heard from other students that training in the other types of aircraft in the fleet was handled differently, so I do not have any information regarding that.

The company instructor made it clear to us that AMF desires to train
the best Brasilia pilots in the world. A lofty goal, to be sure. There is certainly
quite a bit to cover in the class in the time allotted. We were told that some
students, who were rated in the aircraft with thousands of hours in it, had
said that they had never been instructed in such detail before at their previous
carriers. It is AMF’s desire to teach you how to ‘disassemble’ the systems
because the Brasilia is a complicated, older aircraft. Yet, in flight, if there is
an issue, aside from a few memory items, all actions after those items have been performed will be followed per the QRH, which you will learn how to navigate since some guidance may not be logically presented (i.e. single-engine landing after
engine fire)

As a pilot for AMF, since they operate under Part 135, you will be relied upon to obtain your own weather (your flight plans are usually already on file with Center), to be in control of how your aircraft is loaded (you will need to be there while that is done), and that’s in addition to pre-flighting the aircraft and making sure it is properly fueled, and checking that maintenance items have been properly addressed.

Before leaving for initial Indoc training, the company will send you a box of information that includes a large portion of the airplane flight manual, two smaller binders (general ops manual and an SOP for the airplane), and large posters of the cockpit layout. There will also be a letter that states that you should know the flows, memory items and systems before coming to class. The more that you study before getting there, the better the aircraft-specific class will go for you.

This may be an eye-opener for some of you (especially if you are coming from
positions with Part 121 carriers). The Part 121 dispatcher figured out for you
all the aircraft weights for takeoff alternates, destinations and landing alternates, then decided which landing weight was the most restrictive, then told you what
the payload would be, and what the CG was, along with V speeds for takeoff and landing. Then you received the package, reviewed it, and then you departed on your way. However, at AMF, all of those computations will have to be figured out by hand (even though it is otherwise accepted industry-wide to use computers or iPads to do this), keeping in mind, differences in altimeter settings, winds, deferred MEL items, etc. The SOP has a chapter that somewhat addresses this, but it doesn’t go into the details about exactly HOW to do it. For practice, at the end of the day, for homework, we were given the basic information for a fictitious flight and the forms and left to our own devices in coming up with the answers that were needed. Some in the class caught on earlier than others on how to come to the satisfactory conclusions, while others had difficulties. The problem is, you may not get the answer you need going from “A to Z”…the process may go from Z to N to Z to B, etc.

My suggestion would be to have a booklet included with the information sent in the box with the SOP, etc., specifically addressed to this process, that shows sample performance problems solved step by step, from the easiest (no takeoff alternates, no deferred items, etc.) up to more difficult (takeoff alternates, more than one landing alternate, deferred items, figuring landing airport changes enroute, etc.) Then, in addition, spend a full day (if not more) working in class on performance problems. This is a very important part of the pilot’s duties, yet not much time was spent in class addressing it. The ASAP charts that were provided for each runway at each airport are chock full of information need to be interpreted correctly in order to successfully complete the process.

Halfway through the four-week ground school, you will be given a 75-question, internet-based open-book test that required 80% to pass, yet we were told
that the class average was below that. We asked ourselves, how difficult can this test be, since it is open book? We became suspicious when they told us they would give us ten hours to take it, that it was a systems test and that we could use our notes, the AFM, the GOM and SOP. However, there were performance problems (see previous paragraph about those), and other non-systems-related questions thrown in that addressed runway signs, fog types, weather fronts and their related weather, etc. Then, at towards the end of sim training, you will be expected to take another, similar test, closed book. It also requires a passing grade of 80% and passing it determines if you will continue with the training program. There is a bank of over 300 questions from which the 75 are chosen and it is designed to be taken on a laptop. It took us between eight and nine hours to take the test. Make sure you take care of yourselves while taking this test: drink lots of water and snack throughout. You will need to keep up your mental strength.
Thanks Part135Flyer. This was helpful. Sent you a pm
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:35 AM   #4864  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Part135Flyer View Post

However, at AMF, all of those computations will have to be figured out by hand (even though it is otherwise accepted industry-wide to use computers or iPads to do this), keeping in mind, differences in altimeter settings, winds, deferred MEL items, etc. The SOP has a chapter that somewhat addresses this, but it doesn’t go into the details about exactly HOW to do it.
Any commercial pilot should be able to do this. Basic W&B/performance stuff.
Also - it is NOT "otherwise accepted industry-wide to use computers or iPads to do this". Part 135 EFB programs aren't that common, and you can't just use your own iPad to do any of these calculations when flying a multi turbine under 135. And at least in my previous 135 shop, even though we got EFBs, we still had to carry manual backup for W&B and know how to do them by hand.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:29 AM   #4865  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dera View Post
Any commercial pilot should be able to do this. Basic W&B/performance stuff.
Also - it is NOT "otherwise accepted industry-wide to use computers or iPads to do this". Part 135 EFB programs aren't that common, and you can't just use your own iPad to do any of these calculations when flying a multi turbine under 135. And at least in my previous 135 shop, even though we got EFBs, we still had to carry manual backup for W&B and know how to do them by hand.
Agreed - my P135 is required to do W&B manually and it is in the training program every year. You do not necessarily have to have a EFB program though IOT do W&B electronically. We do W&B using an Excel spreadsheet.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:58 AM   #4866  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
I wonder why they expect you to be able to 'take apart the systems'

As a P135 pilot - you probably won't be allowed to reset a CB without maintenance guidance.

As far as emergencies. follow the POH - step by step.

Certainly doesn't sound spoon fed, but if many lower time pilots have succeeded before you, I'm sure that you will be up to the task at hand if you put forth the effort.
The purpose of systems knowledge beyond just being able to reset a breaker is to understand the possible failure modes, and to give you the ability to speak with MX about EXACTLY what is happening, so the problem can be fixed the FIRST time....
Sometimes an incorrect indication is more dangerous than a system not working, and knowing a system and what can happen when it fails is important.
A simple, it doesn't work write-up is ok, but to understand the system in enough detail to have a discussion about it with a mechanic is invaluable in getting the item fixed, and back in service.
Additionally, a deeper understanding of a particular system will give you more insight into how it MAY interact with different systems....
Under 135, you may not have a mechanic at every stop, and on some routes, it possible to go 5 stops before going to a base with a company mechanic.... knowing the airplanes systems in detail so you can pass the correct info to mx control to get a part and a mechanics enroute in an AOG situation while on a scheduled route is very important.
135 is NOT just sit down, strap in and fly job like 121...that's why some people LIKE 135...There is judgement involved...it's not flying with a yes/no flowchart.
It's going out, and as the the previous posters have shown, running numbers, doing charts, math, weather, flight plans, etc, with some help from dispatch, but understanding they don't DO IT FOR YOU LIKE 121.
You are often showing up at an FBO, with a suitcase and a "mission", then figuring out how to accomplish the trip safely. It may include getting a plane hangered or DEICED, fueled, limiting cargo weight if needed, loading, etc....
It's hands on... flying is just ONE of your duties.
Yes, you do have support of a company, dispatch, and previous captains on the route, but it not JUST FLYING.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:40 AM   #4867  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyNH View Post
The purpose of systems knowledge beyond just being able to reset a breaker is to understand the possible failure modes, and to give you the ability to speak with MX about EXACTLY what is happening, so the problem can be fixed the FIRST time....
Sometimes an incorrect indication is more dangerous than a system not working, and knowing a system and what can happen when it fails is important.
A simple, it doesn't work write-up is ok, but to understand the system in enough detail to have a discussion about it with a mechanic is invaluable in getting the item fixed, and back in service.
Additionally, a deeper understanding of a particular system will give you more insight into how it MAY interact with different systems....
Under 135, you may not have a mechanic at every stop, and on some routes, it possible to go 5 stops before going to a base with a company mechanic.... knowing the airplanes systems in detail so you can pass the correct info to mx control to get a part and a mechanics enroute in an AOG situation while on a scheduled route is very important.
135 is NOT just sit down, strap in and fly job like 121...that's why some people LIKE 135...There is judgement involved...it's not flying with a yes/no flowchart.
It's going out, and as the the previous posters have shown, running numbers, doing charts, math, weather, flight plans, etc, with some help from dispatch, but understanding they don't DO IT FOR YOU LIKE 121.
You are often showing up at an FBO, with a suitcase and a "mission", then figuring out how to accomplish the trip safely. It may include getting a plane hangered or DEICED, fueled, limiting cargo weight if needed, loading, etc....
It's hands on... flying is just ONE of your duties.
Yes, you do have support of a company, dispatch, and previous captains on the route, but it not JUST FLYING.
I understand the job of the P135 as far as the doing everything on your own - I've been flying under P135 for the last 8 years.
I don't consider myself a system guru by any means, some of the guys I fly with are systems guru.
I've not seen them as having been able to do anything more than I have been able to do in regards to helping maintenance diagnose a problem
any better to be honest.
Now I agree that being able to tell them some of the troubleshooting that I may have done or at least having the experience to know what to look for and take some pretty good notes so when they may ask 'well did you try this, what was this reading, was this matched. etc.... you have the answers rather than the 'it just didn't work' answer as you alluded too is helpful; but I have this much experience without being able to build the system.

Some of this also comes from my military community comes from the attitude of 'if you can't affect it from the cockpit, then you don't need to know about it'. Of course that community also spends A LOT more time on the mission than the airplane necessarily too - - - LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of mission stuff to worry about.

I continue to try and learn more and more about the inner workings of the airplane but it doesn't come to me naturally as I am not much of mechanical/systems type of guy (and I'll even add in UNFORTUNATELY) which is why I still after 8 years listen intently to the days in the classroom during recurrent and fly a lot of QAFs with the test/maint./engineering guys who do know A LOT about the inner workings of the mighty King Air 300 in my case.

Quote:
...flying is just ONE of your duties.
Try having a MISSION on top of everything else you listed
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:29 PM   #4868  
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Great info. Thank you.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:31 PM   #4869  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Part135Flyer View Post
I completed six weeks of training with Ameriflight (AMF) and would like to pass along some information regarding that training. I want to start by saying that I am not one to criticize one way or the other the manner in which their ground training was conducted. All I desire to do is to pass along what I experienced, some suggestions for improvement that I would have liked to have seen that would have made my experience more fruitful, and wish you the best of luck if you get hired and are to be trained in the same aircraft as I was (the EMB-120 Brasilia). I heard from other students that training in the other types of aircraft in the fleet was handled differently, so I do not have any information regarding that.
Great info, thanks for posting.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:36 PM   #4870  
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Are the AMF training contracts for everyone or just for the lower time pilots that don't meet the minimums? WOuld a 1500 hour pilot who meets all requirements stil have to signa TC?
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