Originally Posted by JayBee

back of the napkin math for MMG -



stay at PSA for 1.5 years (sign on bonus & current forced upgrade) = $71,120



upgrade at 1.5 years, with another 3 months of FO pay while upgrading and one retention bonus payment gives rolling totals of (not exactly how it would be but close enough for this exercise)-

1. 159420 end of yr 3
   
2. 225120 end of yr 4
   
3. 292620 end of yr 5
   

Switch to Endeavor at 1.5 years, spend 6 months as an FO then upgrade to CA, sign on bonus minus repayment of 6 months of sign on bonus from PSA, all on 200 pay

1. 124470 end of year 3
   
2. 201780 end of year 4
   
3. 282780 end of year 5
   

You wouldn't be that far behind on base pay making a lateral move.



While PSA rates are not super horrible its the bonuses that pump it up and the soft pay rules that hurt us the most.



9E is 4hrs min day, 5hrs on a a 5 day - 100% DH and open time is 150/200%.



I don't remember the language exactly and not going to bother looking it up - at 9E if you elect to let PBS give you more than 84 hours you automagically (yes, automagically - no submitting claims on the third blue moon of the year or you are forever ****ed out of pay...) get premium pay (don't remember what that rate is...but I would guess 150 otherwise people wouldn't do it and just pick open time)



With the soft pay rules you will easily surpass PSA earnings, even with a lateral move. With reserve grid manipulation its near impossible to earn critical pay which only equals normal premium pay at 9E and premium pay of 125% is based on the lowest credit day of all your trips in a month or some ridiculous screw you over type language that is so convoluted that I've never even bothered picking up open time

Originally Posted by Swakid8

Are upgrade times at Endeavor 6 months or less?


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Originally Posted by JayBee

They were all for intents and purposes "street captain" back when I almost took the plunge seven months ago, couldn't tell you now.

Originally Posted by Jecain7

on average how much are they crediting over there? I've seen guys on APC saying they were able to hold a CA slot by the end of training at EDV.

Originally Posted by Thedude86

If you read this or the PSA vs. Endeavor thread from the beginning you’ll see a more in depth discussion. While you’re on reserve you’re most likely just going to credit min guarantee of 75 hours no matter where you go. Although, i have read that a lot of the endeavor peeps are still crediting in the mid 80s even on reserve. Once you’re a line holder here and IF you can still SAP to 65 (its getting to the point of almost useless) that’ll give you about 18 days off at PSA. While 18 days off at Endeavor or Republic will give you 85 hours. 15 days off at each company will give you about 30 more hours there compared to PSA.

As mentioned before, even if we matched pay rates you would make SIGNIFICANTLY more elsewhere.
95 x 30 more hours = 2,850 x 12 months = 34,200 MORE per year at Endeavor with the same pay rates. Republic would be a little less than Endeavor but not by much. Currently and for the foreseeable future PSA is about $20 less across the board.

Originally Posted by Thedude86

Another thing a lot of people fail to mention or think about is even if the pay rates were the same you would still make a lot more at Endeavor and Republic because they credit a lot more than we do for the same amount of days off. I’m not exaggerating. Go read the Republic threads if you don’t believe me.

Here at PSA you can have 18 days off (which is becoming more and more difficult since SAP processing times are taking 4-5 hours), but that only gives you 65 hours of credit...70 if you get really lucky.

A republic guy recently posted that he’s only been there a year and half and for the last few months has been averaging 16-18 days off with 88-100 hours of credit. Even if you’re lucky enough to pick up a rare critical trip here at PSA you cant get anywhere close to that kind of credit with that many days off. I have a few buddies at Endeavor and they’re getting pretty similar days off/credit as Republic.

Let’s do some first year pay math. We’ll assume you want 18 days off with each airline as a line holder. If you’re willing to have less days off then the difference will be even greater.

PSA 65 hours/month x 40/hr = 2,600
2,600 x 12 = $31,200 per year

Republic 85 hours/month x 45/hr = 3,825
3,825 x 12 = $45,900 per year

Endeavor 85 hours/month x 50/hr = 4,250
4,250 x 12 = $51,000 per year

So the same 18 days off at Republic gives you about 50% more pay than PSA. Endeavor will give you about 65% higher pay than PSA.
I will also add the 85 hours is conservative based on what I’ve read on republic’s threads. And again, if you choose to fly more days then the pay difference gets greater and greater and even more so when you get past first year and greater again when you upgrade to captain.

This is what I hope people realize. Even if we match pay rates (which doesn’t look like its going to happen anytime soon) you will still make significantly more at Republic and Endeavor with the same amount of days off.

Originally Posted by Thedude86

Just for giggles I decided to do captain pay also. I’m on the 4 year scale so ill just use that. Even if you’ve only been here 2 or 3 years the numbers will still be pretty close. Endeavor has two pay rates so I’ll split the difference and call it 92.

PSA 65 hours/month x 74/hour = 4,810
4,810 x 12 = $57,720 per year

Republic 85 hours/month x 84/hour = 7,140
7,140 x 12 = $85,680 per year

Endeavor 85 hours/month x 92/hour = 7,820
7,820 x 12 = $93,840 per year

Republic is 28,000 more per year with the same days off
Endeavor is 36,000 more per year.

And yes... a lot of people choose to fly more. Well, then you’ll just credit more with higher pay rates so the difference will be even greater.