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[Will congress repeal the 1500 hour rule?]
07-03-2017, 09:24 AM
#121
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by Slick111
Well let's look at recent history, (past 20 years or so). Regional airlines use to operate 7 seat Navajos. They then increased to 15 seat Beech 99's and Bandeirantes (EMB-110), followed by 19 seat Beech 1900's, Jetstreams, and Metroliners. Then they added 30 passenger Shorts 330's and Saabs, followed by EMB-120 Brasilias. Finally, regional airlines incorporated CRJ-100s, 200, 700, and now 900s.
History shows us that increasing regional aircraft capacity may help result in "more feed for mainline", but it certainly hasn't resulted in "additional mainline jets to handle the increase in passengers"!
It's called "the lost decade" and it's largely due to the INCREASE in regional aircraft capacity.
History shows us that increasing regional aircraft capacity may help result in "more feed for mainline", but it certainly hasn't resulted in "additional mainline jets to handle the increase in passengers"!
It's called "the lost decade" and it's largely due to the INCREASE in regional aircraft capacity.
07-03-2017, 11:48 AM
#124
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Posts: 194
Originally Posted by CBreezy
Which caused mainline stagnating and a focus on regional growth to cut costs.
07-03-2017, 12:04 PM
#125
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
Mainline stagnation was caused mostly by retiring the old three crew jets and having a surplus of pilots to go with the downturn in the economy.
There is no pilot shortage. In 2015, the FAA issued 6,430 ATP certificates, and in the first eight months of 2016, the FAA reported that they had issued 6,530 ATP certificates, including 599 R-ATP certificates. That's more than what all airlines have hired in that time. There is no pilot shortage.
If mainline wants more RJs or more larger RJs, nothing stops them from operating them in house, nothing. There is no pilot shortage.
07-03-2017, 12:07 PM
#126
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by Nevjets
There is no pilot shortage. In 2015, the FAA issued 6,430 ATP certificates, and in the first eight months of 2016, the FAA reported that they had issued 6,530 ATP certificates, including 599 R-ATP certificates. That's more than what all airlines have hired in that time. There is no pilot shortage.
If mainline wants more RJs or more larger RJs, nothing stops them from operating them in house, nothing. There is no pilot shortage.
If mainline wants more RJs or more larger RJs, nothing stops them from operating them in house, nothing. There is no pilot shortage.
07-03-2017, 12:26 PM
#127
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
This is why they need to stay at the regionals, so costs can be contained and frequency maintained.
I'm just pointing out that IF there truly was a pilot shortage, mainline could do ALL the flying. But there isn't one. So no need to repeal the ATP rule either way.
Anytime a commodity is scarce, in your argument, pilots, the price of it goes up. The facts show that there have been thousands of ATPs issued since the ATP rule on top of the hundred thousand other ATPs. There are more ATPs than airline pilots. There is no pilot shortage. The only reason why pay is going up is because pay isn't high enough for the thousands of current non-airline pilot rated ATPs to work as an airline pilot. There is a pay shortage.
07-03-2017, 12:37 PM
#128
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
Management will throw enough Benjamins out there for mainline to cave and allow larger RJ's.
As much as pilots talk about the "brotherhood" amongst pilots, there is no unity and senior pilots have, and will continue to eat the junior pilots, especially when management dangles higher pay rates and/or restoring pensions their way.
As much as pilots talk about the "brotherhood" amongst pilots, there is no unity and senior pilots have, and will continue to eat the junior pilots, especially when management dangles higher pay rates and/or restoring pensions their way.
07-03-2017, 12:40 PM
#129
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by sailingfun
So why did it not happen on the contracts just signed? That's when they needed it with orders and aircraft already on the books or rumored.
07-03-2017, 01:23 PM
#130
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Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
Because management at AA and UAL are still working on their pilot groups to concede to larger RJ's. Once they do, DALPA will be forced to concede also or be faced with an untenable position.
We lived all the supposed benefits you claim. Management preached it over and over. None of it came true. Keep in mind that control of the unions at Delta, AA and UAL for the next contracts will be mostly pilots who lived the RJ debacle and ended up furloughed. I can assure you like the senior guys they will fight it to the grave! The mere mention of outsourcing 90-100 seat airframes in a management opener will immediately lead to a woeful lack of enthusiasm. The feelings are that strong. The limit will stay at 76 seats. I don't even think a small weight increase to accommodate the newer 76 seaters that exceed the current weight limit will happen.
The other factor you don't mention is the poor performance of the regionals. That was a big part of Delta management bringing more of that flying back in house. After 20 years of trying they realize that it is not going to get fixed.
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