rickair7777

The original question on this thread involved a DH which occured at the END of a 121 shift. A DH at the beginning would count against 16 hours because it is not rest.

rickair7777

There is no requirement for rest of ANY sort after your 121 flying shift is complete. All rest is looking back, not forward.

The wording of the compensatory rest requirement can be confusing in this regard, but compensatory rest is ONLY required to begin on time if you will be doing 121 flying at the end of the compensatory rest. The REAL requirement is that all 121 flying must be completed prior to the scheduled start of compensatory rest... "121 duty" MUST end on time, but rest does NOT need to actually begin on time unless your 121 show time the next day dictates that.

If all the 121 flying is completed legally, then compensatory rest IS NOT required...you need to finish 121 the flying NLT the scheduled start of compensatory rest. After that you can still be on "company duty"...ie DH, part 91 flying, mopping the lav, whatever they want you to do.

The key here is that the FAA and the regs DO NOT HAVE ANY CONCERN WHATSOVER FOR YOUR HEALTH, REST, COMFORT, WELL-BEING, ETC if you have finished your 121 flying. If there is no more 121 flying, no rest is required, period. Obviously you WILL need to acquire legal rest prior to returning to 121 duty.

Don't confuse your contract with the FARs.

WEACLRS

In this scenario his duty day began at 0500 with the DH. At the start of his leg at 1530 (assuming a one hour prior to departure show time) he would have to look at the time of the scheduled completion of the flight (the planned 23:00 release) and look back through 24 hrs to find eight consecutive hours of rest. In this case take 23:00 - 24 hours, which is 23:00 the night before, plus 8:00, is 07:00 the current morning. Since he showed at 05:00, he is not legal to start the flight at 1530 because that does not give him eight hours of consecutive rest anywhere in the 24 hr look back.

They could have released him at 08:00 and not had him show until 16:00. Then when he took the scheduled completion of the flight and "looked back" 24 hours, he would have found 8:00 hours of rest (0800 to 1600).

In fact this type of schedule is done a lot. Just change the times a little. It's called a stand-up. Show at say 20:00 for a deadhead flight to an outstation at 20:30. Lets say the flight gets in at 22:00 and you are off to the hotel. Morning show at 4:30 for a 5:30 departure back. That's 7:30 of rest...not enough. But the flight is scheduled to arrive at 7:00 and you're off duty at 7:15. The schedule duty is a total of 11:15. Legal.

However, what happened enough at our regional was the flight would end up having a mx problem in the morning and get delayed. The clock's ticking. Since the previous day's show was at 20:00, and there has not been at least 8 hours rest, the flight must leave by 10:15 to make it back, with the scheduled flight time, in order for the flight crew to be off duty by 12:00 (10:15 plus 1:30 flight plus 15 mins post flight), in this case 16 hours after the 20:00 show the previous night. After they got burned a bunch of times they started to scale back the stand-ups.

WEACLRS

This is correct. In fact, on our pairings at CAL, the required rest code is shown at the end of each day of the pairing, except for the last day of the pairing where no rest code is shown. We have to watch that in case we get extended.

JetJock16

I'd like to thank you ALL for this civil debate. The information is excellent.

higney85

"company duty"- you work for a 121 operator, which means your company duty is 121 duty. The only way this doesnt apply is part 91, which is known to be a special thing because its part 91, otherwise everything else is subject to 121. the 16 hour rule still applies though because your working for a 121 company. The only thing part 91 allows is to fly over 8 hours in a day b/c there are no soles in da back...

JetJock16

Mmmmm correct? But, regardless of who's in the back you can still fly over 8 hours as long as you were scheduled for less than 8 hours and delays forced you over. The catch here is that your schedule can not be changed in the middle of the day, without the changes showing a new scheduled FLT day of 8 hours or less.

Shrek

This thread has been BEATEN to death eh?!!!

sflpilot

Deadhead is not off duty when you are on a 121 flight listed as crew. If it is off duty and it's at the end of a trip with no more duty for 8, 10, 12 hrs. whatever then why not just have a few alcoholic drinks on the flight to unwind (after unifom shirt is changed) since you apparently are not on duty. Try that and see what happens; you won't like the results.

XtremeF150

Alright, I think EVERYONE is missing something here it is DUTY however, The length of duty makes NO difference to the FAA as long as you are not a required crewmember. PLEASE TELL ME HOW ONE OF YOU REGIONAL GUYS ARE A REQUIRED CREWMEMBER ON THE MAINLINE FLIGHT THAT YOU ARE dh'ING ON.

I guess if you guys get delayed on the taxi out you are going to tell the flight attendant that you need to speak to the CA on that 767 and tell him to return to the gate because YOU are not legal to take off for the DH....Let me tell you how hard that crew will be laughing at you.

If you fly 7.5 hours then DH to complete a 17 hour duty day, it doesn't matter because it was on the end of the day. however if you were sceduled to fly in the morning they might have to push your showtime back to make legal rest BEFORE you take the controls of a 121 flight....But guess what if it is a 91 repo then they can ask you to fly it as well. I know at Mesa we can turn it down till we have at least 8 hours rest but the FAA doesn't care.

I know this is frustrating but all I can say is call up your POI and ask him how long you can DH and see if he says anything about it.