Originally Posted by sanicom3205

American, Envoy, Piedmont and PSA are different companies.

Originally Posted by acecrackshot

This is factually incorrect. They are all wholly owned subsidiaries of the same corporate parent, namely American Airlines Group. The distinctions and relationships between them are legal fictions for the purposes of taxation, employee pay/benefits and responsibilities, etc.

However the one thing all share is their beneficial ownership, namely the stockholders of AAL.

So, in that, it is actually correct to refer to the four WOs of AAG. The rest is window dressing.

Originally Posted by LabDad06

Just a question for the one list fans. For those who want to have a legacy seniority number once at Envoy or other WO, do you also support a legacy seniority number for the cadet program? They've passed the Captain Review Board and signed a Letter of Commitment and "will be placed into the next available new hire class at Envoy upon reaching minimums, with no additional interview required." That sounds a lot like the flow through to AA. Do you think a cadet with <300 hours should now that they're part of the Envoy/AA program? If not, why do you think a regional pilot should and a cadet shouldn't?

Originally Posted by havick206

Bug difference between a cadet at a flight school and a WO pilot operating AAG owned revenue aircraft on property.

not that I disagree with your sentiment.

Originally Posted by LabDad06

Yes and no. Yes a big difference in reality. The no on paper at least, where it is a done deal. Interview as a cadet without another interview ever, move up to Envoy, flow up to AA.

I'm just interested if they agree or not, and why or why not.

Originally Posted by Pebbles

, with all due respect, you sound as we all do when still at the regional level. It’s totally normal. I sat there in the RJ all the time talking about how “we do the same job, pay us the same as the American 73 in front of us on taxi out!” But, once you get to the next level, your viewpoint will most likely change. Mine did.

I think one sort of appreciates the hard work that gets one to the next level. I know some flow folks sort of feel entitled and don’t all have that same sense of pride in ones craft it seems. But for those hired via interview, there’s a great sense of pride in the accomplishment. Perhaps that difference is what helps one truly appreciate the separation.

My only point is that I’m pretty sure your feeling/argument will change once you’re here. Hopefully you’re not the new person who wears the “It’s Time” blue lanyard when brand new, just to show your same-uniform-wearing regional buddies that you are now truly a mainline pilot. Then you just prove the point, despite the words now.

Fire away, I expect it! I’m not trying to be mean, just sayin’ ...

Originally Posted by Varsity

Management loves that you 'feel different' for doing the same job. They play pilots like a flute with their caste system.

Originally Posted by Varsity

There is a reason it only exists in North America. It's a bull**** system that makes zero sense.

Originally Posted by LabDad06

Just a question for the one list fans. For those who want to have a legacy seniority number once at Envoy or other WO, do you also support a legacy seniority number for the cadet program? They've passed the Captain Review Board and signed a Letter of Commitment and "will be placed into the next available new hire class at Envoy upon reaching minimums, with no additional interview required." That sounds a lot like the flow through to AA. Do you think a cadet with <300 hours should now that they're part of the Envoy/AA program? If not, why do you think a regional pilot should and a cadet shouldn't?

Originally Posted by rickair7777

Believe me, I do feel different now... every time I check my bank account. Hard sell to get people to overturn the apple cart to "save" the regional pilots in the vague and non-quantifiable hope that someday a single list would somehow result in economic gains for all (while the other legacies most likely continue to enjoy low cost feed and a competitive advantage).

That's the point, and that's what perpetuates this. People's time is probably better spent updating apps than tilting at windmills. When I was at the regionals, every now and then I admit I'd have a wishful thought about merger/SLI with a major, but then I'd quickly snap back to reality and refocus on GTFO.



Looked at pilot payscales outside of North America lately? And then you need to consider their 50-70% income tax rates. Only way to make US-comparable pay overseas is probably in a contract work, which of course has it's own set warts.

Originally Posted by Cyio

As I said, I am going to step away from this fight for now. I hope the mindset changes in the coming years for the next generation of pilots. Peace.

Originally Posted by rickair7777

Not a fight at all, just a perspective from the point of view of someone who's BTDT and seen it from all angles. My main point and recurring theme, is that people should stay focused on getting out of the regionals, or make their peace with what it is... if regionals pay enough for your circumstances, then you can eventually enjoy good seniority and QOL, perhaps based somewhere you want to live, just with the caveat that regional bases (and regionals) are more likely to disappear than major bases (or major airlines). If you're not happy with that, work on getting out.