Comair updates?
I take it this means that the bottom 400 pilots from each are intermixed, ie. Comair's 400 furloughs don't wind up on the bottom?
Relative seniority will still suck...
Comair's #500 has 12 years and Mesaba's #500 has about 3.
By suck, I mean suck for the Comair guys. It would be a windfall for many of the Mesaba guys.
Relative seniority will still suck...
Comair's #500 has 12 years and Mesaba's #500 has about 3.
By suck, I mean suck for the Comair guys. It would be a windfall for many of the Mesaba guys.
On Reserve
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 3
From: MD-80 FO
I know that the merger rumor goes through its peaks and valleys, but it seems to be at a current peak at the moment and I thought I might add some things.
1) A merger would make perfect sense. It would delete overlap such as our bad scheduling. Why then would Delta do it? Nothing else they do makes sense.
2) Less joking now, I had Thanksgiving dinner with Bendo last year. It sucked becuase I was downgraded in Nov and given the last 5 days of the month as Researve.... despite being #13 in the seat. I tried to use my move days... and was denied pretty harshly by the CP office. Terrific.... Car in JFK, RSV in CVG.
I went to the employee Thanksgiving dinner and Bendo made his entrance after 95% of the employees had finsihed and left. I had nothing but researve... so got the opportunity (with 3 others) to bombard him with questions. He told us that the short term future for Comair was to squeeze as much efficiency out of the operation as possible in 09 to HOPE to be around in 2010. Also, he said NO MERGER. The company doesnt want to mix high cost with low cost. Thier Payscale is better.... but we have far more people making 15 year to 18 year longevity pay. Therefore we are getting killed in ASM cost.
However, thats not to say that minds havent changed in a year. To which I take issue with the seniority integration aspect of this rumor. People throw around the word precedent, etc. and this is all false. Did the American and TWA merger conform to any precedent or any other kind of rules that pilots simple took as gospel? How about the America West US Air merger? Did that go the way every single merger goes?
Here is the Truth. There is no ALPA plan for a seniority integration becuase if there was they would be sued bythe TWA and US Air pilots and likely be bankrupted. ALPA stays hands off..... so much so that they dont contribute to ANY pilot groups merger fund.
Airline Management makes the decision to merge or is forced to by the RLA. Management gets approval from the DOT, etc. and then notifies the Union(s) of the merger. The individual work groups collect a merger fund, hire a labor law firm, and literaly GO TO WAR.
There is nearly ALWAYS a winner and a loser in these situations and typically they end up with no agreement and in arbitration. Both sides press their positions viciously and the arbitrator sides with the group that makes the best arguement or invests a huge quantity of his or her personal time in drafting a seniority integration that they see as fair.
Where did this false impression that relative seniority is ALWAYS the way mergers are done come from?
Comair and Mesaba fly the same jet equipment. Comair pilots are VASTLY more senior/experienced in the equipement (Was the inexperience at Colgan a good thing? The Comair Attorney asks.) Comair pays a fortune to a bad ass NYC law firm to get Date of Hire but is willing to concede several "fences" to protect the other pilot group at their established bases until/unless one of Comairs bases is closed.
What ends up happening? Nobody can know until the dust settles from what will be an epic legal brawl.
1) A merger would make perfect sense. It would delete overlap such as our bad scheduling. Why then would Delta do it? Nothing else they do makes sense.
2) Less joking now, I had Thanksgiving dinner with Bendo last year. It sucked becuase I was downgraded in Nov and given the last 5 days of the month as Researve.... despite being #13 in the seat. I tried to use my move days... and was denied pretty harshly by the CP office. Terrific.... Car in JFK, RSV in CVG.
I went to the employee Thanksgiving dinner and Bendo made his entrance after 95% of the employees had finsihed and left. I had nothing but researve... so got the opportunity (with 3 others) to bombard him with questions. He told us that the short term future for Comair was to squeeze as much efficiency out of the operation as possible in 09 to HOPE to be around in 2010. Also, he said NO MERGER. The company doesnt want to mix high cost with low cost. Thier Payscale is better.... but we have far more people making 15 year to 18 year longevity pay. Therefore we are getting killed in ASM cost.
However, thats not to say that minds havent changed in a year. To which I take issue with the seniority integration aspect of this rumor. People throw around the word precedent, etc. and this is all false. Did the American and TWA merger conform to any precedent or any other kind of rules that pilots simple took as gospel? How about the America West US Air merger? Did that go the way every single merger goes?
Here is the Truth. There is no ALPA plan for a seniority integration becuase if there was they would be sued bythe TWA and US Air pilots and likely be bankrupted. ALPA stays hands off..... so much so that they dont contribute to ANY pilot groups merger fund.
Airline Management makes the decision to merge or is forced to by the RLA. Management gets approval from the DOT, etc. and then notifies the Union(s) of the merger. The individual work groups collect a merger fund, hire a labor law firm, and literaly GO TO WAR.
There is nearly ALWAYS a winner and a loser in these situations and typically they end up with no agreement and in arbitration. Both sides press their positions viciously and the arbitrator sides with the group that makes the best arguement or invests a huge quantity of his or her personal time in drafting a seniority integration that they see as fair.
Where did this false impression that relative seniority is ALWAYS the way mergers are done come from?
Comair and Mesaba fly the same jet equipment. Comair pilots are VASTLY more senior/experienced in the equipement (Was the inexperience at Colgan a good thing? The Comair Attorney asks.) Comair pays a fortune to a bad ass NYC law firm to get Date of Hire but is willing to concede several "fences" to protect the other pilot group at their established bases until/unless one of Comairs bases is closed.
What ends up happening? Nobody can know until the dust settles from what will be an epic legal brawl.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
From: Port of Indecision and Southwest of Disorder
#600 at Comair is July 2000 hire date.
Relative seniority will never work. I think if Delta Merge Comair and Mesaba, it will be a very long fight and the beginning of a much divided pilot group. I would never go for relative seniority integration.
Relative seniority will never work. I think if Delta Merge Comair and Mesaba, it will be a very long fight and the beginning of a much divided pilot group. I would never go for relative seniority integration.
According to the latest seniority list Seniority #600 would be around late June 2007 hire.
I don't know where you guys are getting this merger between Comair and Mesaba rumor, but it is just that. Only thing I've heard is that merger between Comair and Mesaba is highly unlikely, and that if any merger does happen it would be between Compass and Mesaba. However, I can't see that happening because that is not how DAL operates. DAL management has been saying the number of DCI carriers flying for DAL will be reduced down from 8 to around 4 or 5, but I do not expect DAL to merge Comair and Mesaba. Too much headache for the DAL management in merging two airlines with a large number of very senior pilots at the top. Besides, DAL will probably keep Mesaba, Compass and Comair separate to keep the option to sell off either Mesaba or Compass individually to make profit.
I don't know where you guys are getting this merger between Comair and Mesaba rumor, but it is just that. Only thing I've heard is that merger between Comair and Mesaba is highly unlikely, and that if any merger does happen it would be between Compass and Mesaba. However, I can't see that happening because that is not how DAL operates. DAL management has been saying the number of DCI carriers flying for DAL will be reduced down from 8 to around 4 or 5, but I do not expect DAL to merge Comair and Mesaba. Too much headache for the DAL management in merging two airlines with a large number of very senior pilots at the top. Besides, DAL will probably keep Mesaba, Compass and Comair separate to keep the option to sell off either Mesaba or Compass individually to make profit.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,531
Likes: 0
From: FO4LIFE
I want my merger money back. They only got $80 out of me before the "if you don't pay up we will fire you" letters showed up. I could really use that money right now, but I have a feeling I will never see it again. I think it is a bit silly to sue them for $80, otherwise Id think about it.
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