billyho

The plan is to get us on board with the contract. Let envoy and piedmont shrink. Piedmont takes over Envoys assets in a transfer. 175's come...Game done.

JohnGardner

Hmmmm. Okay, and you deduced this how exactly?

prop1900

I am with you something seems to be missing! It will be interesting to see how this will work.

billyho

My flight attendant told me

Bzzt

It really doesn't take an advanced business degree to see that Envoy's days are numbered. It's obvious with the last failed negotiations and what the company was proposing that the long term feed plan for AA no longer runs through Envoy.

-Changes to flow language from the failed AIP:

For pilots hired after DOS:

We are trying to define a career path that a new hire will see and understand as to the election of whether to opt out of the program. A clearly defined career progression model will be critical in attracting qualified pilots. For example, Envoy, Piedmont, and PSA flow through pilots will fill no less than 50% of AA’s new hire classes. The number of AA new hire positions available to Envoy flowthrough pilots in each AA class will be proportional to the size of Envoy’s pilot group in relation to Piedmont and PSA.

This is a clear indication that AA no longer intends the Envoy group to be the largest of the wholly owneds, whether that means a total shut down or a reduced pilot group is probably not known even to AA management yet.

-Changes to the fleet commitment:

150 aircraft minimum fleet guarantee for the duration of the agreement

The number was less due to the Compass agreement, that number will be less again if/when AA comes back to the bargaining table. It's not unrealistic to believe they will find a way to outsource another 20 aircraft minimum. Many regionals are beginning to lose 50 seat flying, they can replace that with the 175s AA is offering.

John, I don't have any ill feelings toward you. I am disappointed that the MEC made an error in judgement when they refused to sell the agreement to the pilot group as a whole. I am disappointed that you defend that decision both on and off the internet. The bottom line is that the people who were in a position of decision making within our union were all short timers at Envoy. Those remaining at Envoy will have to deal with the consequences of your "stand for the industry", not you. Enjoy your job at AA, you paid your dues dealing with Envoy for so many years and I'm glad for all the 824 who have had and will have the opportunity to flow. That being said, I would appreciate it if you'd quit trying to poison the minds of PDT pilots, this is their decision and I really don't want to see any more career wreckage created by the union at Envoy.

buddies8

Wait I have to wipe my tears away from this sorrow.
I will be back. Give me a couple of minutes.

higgi8f6

Actually RyanP, all of this has already happened to Piedmont. We have sat on the sidelines and held the line while Republic, Air Wisconsin, and Mesa grew into CLT and PHL while Piedmont shrank. We have gone from over 100 planes and a confirmation of a refleet to only 37 aircraft. The difference is when the ATRs were parked and bases closed, you still had a job and a place to work. It may not be perfect but you weren't collecting unemployment. If they park the ERJs the CRJs are still on property and vice versa. That option isn't there at Piedmont. There is more to this decision than just a TA.

Now I know there are people here at Piedmont who have already made up their minds either way but to tell someone else how to decide without even understanding the economics or physical ramifications of that decision will be is insulting. Will you offer me a Captain position at Envoy with 10 years seniority when Piedmont shuts down because we took the sword for you? Like I said earlier, I'm on the fence and will make an informed decision once I have had time to read and understand what the TA says. And whatever decision I make I will stand by it that I made the right decision for me and my Piedmont pilot group, nobody else.

billyho

Yes from over 100 planes to just 38. Not to mention we've had way more base closures. Jax, Tpa, Clt, ORF, PHF, SYR to just name a few.

Don't tell us about your hardships!!!

m78fl370

Wow. This^^^^^^^^^^ is why we were stupid at Envoy to shoot our deal down. Everyone forgets that this is the caliber of people at these other crap airlines. Why did we think it would be any different?

On behalf of everyone at envoy, YOU'RE WELCOME.

JohnGardner

So you think we should have been "selling" the TA to the pilots???

the pilots didnt support the TA. they made that loud and clear to the reps. the reps voted it down. the company made it clear they thought the reps didnt represent the pilots. they found a way to not support the TA, but get it to a pilot vote. the pilots made it crystal clear they didnt support it. we are all big boys and girls, capable of doing all our own due dilligence. the TA was neither shot down or sold by the MEC or by myself. it was objective fact that was presented, and i was at every base visit. i've practically begged people who point a finger at me to give me a single instance where i did not provide even-handed fact, and never seen a shred of evidence.

selling the TA is what team tony did - we are here now in large part due to the selling and fear grenades that got the bankruptcy TA passed. PDT's deal would be WAY worse had we voted ours in.

none of the union leadership would have been properly doing our jobs had we "sold" the TA, least of which me. i cant even believe you suggested that.

all that said, i am trying to poison no one's minds. i believe the experience at eagle should be instructive in many ways for the PDT pilots that are about to go through their pilot vote process. they are big boys and girls too, and should be doing their due diligence. you will not see me suggesting a vote either way to anyone here, or making any suggestion other than do your homework and make as good a rational decision as possible while avoiding emotion.

that's all.

PDT is not eagle, and their TA is not ours. as a matter of fact, we dont know what their TA is. when it comes out, i'll read it, but i wont comment here on it unless asked to do so and then only sparingly. there are lines i shouldnt cross, and there are lines i cannot cross. i wont be crossing either.