I highly doubt Eagle captains will be paid that rate. According to our contract, new aircraft rates are to be negotiated and if no agreement, then an arbitrator decides.

As stated before, arbitrators view the competitive landscape when making these decisions, so the marketplace would decide that. More then likely for a 76-seat E-175 or CRJ-900, captains would probably get a $5/hour or so bump up from the 70-seat rate (whoopie) and F/O's perhaps the same. The E-190 would probably only be flown by AA feeders if BK comes into play and there again, our rates would be arbitrated (Eagle probably NOT included in AA BK) and again we couldn't do any worse then what's already out there.

Eagle's already paying me 125K/year to fly 50-seats, another 26 seats for $5/hour more is a pretty good deal for them.................which now you see why AMR wants them here so bad.

It's almost a no-brainer once the lone obstacle is gone.........which will just take a little more time. Not my choice and I have no say, but just like most other regionals it's a shoo-in.

 

How is that possible? The payscale tops out at $102 for 18/yr cap on the 70. Even at that rate you would still have to average 100hr + a month.

 

Be VERY careful phrog.

I've learned this forum is primarily a mainline pilots forum when scope is the subject and if you make any comments in favor of these aircraft for your carrier, you'll be targeted and will end up in a bash fest. Many of these pilots expect you to either shut up about it, or capitulate to their way of thinking. It appears there is no middle ground or room for difference of opinion.

 

There are MANY ways to add pay for little or no work here. Our top 500 captains are topped out (more then 18 years) and I know dozens that make as much or more then me. If you don't commute, are flexible and know how to use the contract for your benefit, then it's more than possible. One CRJ captain I know (who is the "master" when it comes to contractual self-benefit) made $142,000 on the CRJ and he doesn't even do IOE !

This WILL include some OT, but with 15-18 days off for many senior and a good day trip can bring in $900, free pay for transition conflicts etc., it's no wonder why Eagle wants to get rid of senior captains (and many don't want to flowthrough to AA). Most topped out ERJ captains probabaly are only a little over $100K, as many commute and then it's MUCH more difficult to do this.......at least if you want a life.

Likewise, our F/O scale tops out about 37K/year (based on 75 hours/month), but I've flown with MANY F/O's whove made 55-60K/year. So when you double the pay rate, it's not hard to see how you can double the total compensation.

It seems so many here declare all senior regional pilots as "losers", but if you ask 10 people on the street if a job that pays 10K/month, health care, dollar for dollar match on 401(k), travel benefits, reasonable time off (I still get at least 12 days off per month and even a couple of extra half days) and relative job security (my airline has to virtually liquidate for me to lose my job...at least for THAT reason) is good, most would be looking for a place to sign up. It takes a long time to get there though, but once you have it sure changes the way the rest of the industry looks. Of course, no guarantees, but that is why its best (actually IMPERATIVE) you have an independant source of income........then IMHO, you've got the best of both worlds.

Personally, if I had gone to a major I wouldn't have had the time to start and nuture another source of income and I'd be shooting craps hoping my major carrier didn't screw me. Of course, with two exceptions I'd have had my pension gutted and in most all cases my pay cut and my schedule whacked in the wrong direction, so yes I would have been screwed just as feared. I made a different choice then many, because I don't trust this industry and I knew that senioirty is THE name of the game........well, that and luck. A typical 5 year furlough from a major can claim 400K (or more) from a pilots total income not including any pension accrual lost during furlough and that's tough to make back. Loss of 75% of pension could be a million........it adds up, so when you look in the rear-view mirror at 60 (or 65), and tally up two pilots, one that had a lot of hard luck on the major airline path and one that had really good luck on the regional path, you might find that regional pilot did as good or even better compensation wise (and certainly stress wise). A second income can change that exponentially.

The E-JET's are not only coming, they're here and if you believe that it means more hard luck on the major side and more good luck on the regional, it pays to at least CONSIDER this reality. This reality is a byproduct of our profession (ALPA and pilots) previous faliure to come together and the continuous desire to remain divided. If you don't believe that, just read through these forums.......it's constant and undenyable. All I've said from day one, is now it's too late, we've screwed OURSELVES as a profession and management and bean-counters have set the economic reality with the consumer approving.

We all make our choices, choose our paths and live with the results. At this point it's best to survey where the future is going and where it's almost certainly continuing to go when making those choices, so you have no regrets over the path one has chosen.

A harsh reality it is.

 

Double post sorry :-P

 

I am quoting this because the truth in the argument is about the target market. I won't go as far to say there is a NEED for the 76-100 seat aircraft in the market, but I will say that these aircraft make financial sense (lowering capacity/lower operating cost). I would LOVE to see what AA projects the acquisition and integration of these aircraft would cost versus the expected future cash flow. Without all the numbers in hand, I have a feeling these E170 E190 need to come on AMR property in some fashion for them to stay competitive.

Most people here understand that these aircraft are very much in competition with MD80s and maybe even 737s on some routes. Mainline pilots are rightfully concerned. The question is two fold. Who is going to fly them? How much will they get paid?

The "who will fly them?" question is sticky. If AA pilots hold firmly on scope, either Eagle will have to be divested totally, or AA pilots will fly them. I don't think the pilots can decide the "who." Just influence it a little.

The "how much will they get paid?" question is one where pilots DO ultimately have the most authority. Of course work rules and benefits come into play here as well.

When debating the pay issue, I think it would best serve our understanding if we compared it within normal ranges or even just minimums. 75hrs/month x pay rate. Stay away from what is possible. What you could possibly make is misleading.

 

Of course mainline pilots are concerned............they should be. They're getting the shaft and it's not the fault of regional pilots, but the bad decisions of the past coming home to roost. That sentance alone tells you something of why.....it's "they" who are getting the shaft because it is "us" who are being used to do it. If there was no them and us, we wouldn't be where we are now. But just like cancer, once it has occured, you cannot pretend it isn't there. Just like Walmart and Best Buy, the economic reality has become the cheapest buck.....you do it when shopping for that flat screen plasma right ? Expecting or demanding that each successive regional pilot group whose management acquires these aircraft to suddenly quit or jump off a cliff to solve the problem isn't realistic and has no chance of happening, so it's pointless for anyone to consider that.

But the above misses one VERY important aspect (perhaps THE most important). The economical viability of these aircraft at mainline ISN'T just about pilots. If it were, they'd be much easier to be placed there. You have to consider the TOTAL labor package. Mainline mechanics, F/A's, Agents and FSC's all will command more via "me too" contracts. That's a certainty. Then when you factor in the greater leverage these labor groups have vs. the typical regional (and they DO have greater leverage), they have the ability to gradually "raise the bar" and ratchet up cost at a greater rate then regional competition. If these aircraft WERE NOT already entrenched at the regional level THEN that is when you could make a play for mainline operation. As I've said dozens of times here that needed to be done 15 years ago, but ALPA dropped the ball. There was still room within the last 5-7 years for better treatment of this cancer improving the odds of controlling it better and giving the patient both a longer life and a better quality of life, but that period was actually wasted on WIDENING divisions among pilots. I know....I'm one of the "losers" frequently blamed for the problem.

Now it's WAY too late. Mangement and economics are in the driver seat and the future will be painful. Outside of mainline unions (again, not JUST pilots) agreeing themselves to become "regionals" by long-term contracts at regional scale for THEIR pilots, mechanics, F/A's etc., I cannot see any other outcome then where the current path is clearly leading.

 

That's OK..............I won't try to get you banned for it, even though you are a regional pilot.

 

That is a good point that I missed and is all the more reason to think that these aircraft will end up in Eagle hands. That leads to all kinds of questions and speculation.

One question I have is what kind of pull do these other labor unions have? Can they be worked with? Should they be worked with?

The divestiture issue comes to mind as well. Could divestiture actually allow Eagle to fly these for AMR in any capacity? Not that I would hope for divesture...I can't imagine it would be good for our pilot group. I'm boggled.

 

Divestiture doesn't mean squat when talking about providing feed for AA. The APA contract dictates exactly who can fly what as a commuter affiliate, and as long as we are still operating AA feed on the Eagle certificate we would be held to their limitations regardless of us being independent. If we were spun-off (or sold) the only benefit would be flying feed for other carriers. I'm doubtful it will ever happen.