There have been rumblings of that from management. They're getting old and tired from too much time down in the salty Carribean air. The ones transferred to DFW have been a nightmare to maintain, due in part to the lack of experience the current MTX cadre has with them and cancellations have been high, especially due to air conditioning issues.

Just as is the 22 CRJ orders that they could make if they want, it's come down to financing and for most anyone to do that now is tough. I've heard that Bombardier is willing to do a deal requiring 15% down, but finding the financing is the effort. AMR has upcoming debt problems and lenders are justifiably nervous about lending money to airlines right now......even more so than home buyers !

Most analysts consider AA a close #3 in the race to liquidation just behind U with UAL clearly the lead horse. If UAL flops by next summer or fall. it would probably not only insure both U and AA's survival but it would insure the industry would likely regain its health with appropriate ticket prices as a result of right-sized capacity.

 

Since it would be identical to the solution CHQ came up with when they encountered the same problem several years ago, I fail to see why you "just say no". Will you explain why this could not happen?

 

/fume

***!! How is SJU STILL way under staffed!? We got furloughs and reserves are still getting shipped all over to cover flying.

Sometimes I think I might develop an aneurysm sorting out this companies logic.

/fume thanks for listening.

 

I think I misunderstood. I suppose they could if they set up a legalistic shell game like RAH. However, I think the market value of AE is poor given its antiquated fleet and overcapacity in the commuter market now.

I don't think AMR is going to make any significant moves until it's labor contracts with the pilots, FAs, and mechanics are settled and that could be a couple years off.

From its attempt to sell AE last year, it would seem that AMR would rather contract out it's small jets and be rid of AE. How scope shakes out in the next contract will be pivotal. I see rigid opposition to any give on 76-seat narrow bodies even among the few most fervent company-concessionistas AA pilots.

 

Technically speaking... if Eagle was spun off, and all aircraft that were doing AA feed got moved onto the Eagle certificate (ATRs from Executive to Eagle). Then the Executive certificate would be open to expansion for any/all aircraft. This is how RAH set up CHQ and has it separate from the other certificates. Also interesting to note, I believe Executive already has operating certificate privileges for an amazing amount of area through the caribbean, mexico, central and south america. Most areas current unused.


I disagree that AMR would rather contract out all feed flying. I believe the announcement to sell previously was due to the massive growth regional carriers were seeing, and they were in high demand. If AMR could have sold Eagle at a large profit they would have. There were several interested carriers (Skywest, RAH) but when AMR told them the strings attatched they declined to buy.

If AMR owns their feed flying they are basically paying themselves to do work. Taking money from one pocket and moving it to another. If they contract out flying, they are paying money to a 3rd party and will never see that money again. Even if Eagle lost money I bet it would still be more profitable than paying someone else to do it.

Im sure AMR will contract some other carriers to do a small portion of feed flying, strictly for whipsaw purposes when 2012 comes around and the Eagle contract is up.

I understand not wanting to give concessions, but if APA refuses and AMR goes into BK will the ultimate outcome be the same regarding scope? Wouldn't it be preferable to negotiate something (pay raises/QOL/benefits) in exchange for something that the company will get one way or another?

In a perfect world I would wish APA could hold the line, create more mainline jobs, higher pay, etc. In the real world, I want AMR to be able to compete and remain in business as a competitive carrier.

 

I jumpseated on one when visiting in Florida. Their airplanes are very tired but I was grateful for the ride.

 

I've been saying this exact same thing. This is not a popular philosophy among many, for there is a lot of emotion overriding practical reality. When that happens, the chances of big mistakes increases.

For everyones sake, lets hope practical reality overrides raw emotion for the betterment of all.

 

Among my fellow AA pilots have have not talked to a single one EVER that would vote for a contract that has concessions on scope.

 

Which is exactly why it is my contention that AMR will likely have to get it another (more painful) way and if they do, they'll want (and get) greater relief from current limits. AA cannot survive without feed and that is immutable fact. AMR cannot continue with the current feed system indefinately, at least not profitably or competitively and that is also immutable fact.

The APA has yet to present any viable options to overcome the above, except a blanket statement that, "all flying is ours", which they cannot even dissect the meaning of for their own membership. A large portion of that flying, is flying their membership had no interest (which is why we do it in the first place) in and I think still doesn't unless maybe they get AA pay/schedules/pension which will not happen.

Emotion it may be then and that's unfortunate.

 

I respect every AA pilot wanting to keep the line where it is, and I understand the desire to keep jobs at mainline. The sad truth is that APA cannot reverse the direction of the entire airline industry. Every legacy carrier competitor has outsourced E170 flying to a regional carrier that has 1/4 the operating expense of a mainline carrier. These E170s are flying mainline routes competing head-to-head against AA MD80s. If you have not jumpseated on a E170/E190 I would recommend it and compare it to an AA MD80.

If APA doesn't want to change scope then I really truly hope they find a way to operate E170s for the same operating cost of competitors who have already outsourced this flying. Even if APA agreed to Republic payscales the legacy costs of benefits, FAs, MTX, etc would drive the total operating cost through the roof. I would estimate APA would have to go at least 15-20% below Republic payrates to be equally competitive. Thats not going to happen, and I don't expect APA to agree to something ridiculous like that.

The other option is outsourcing the flying to another carrier. You can give it away to Republic, who is a 3rd party company, or make a scope exception for Eagle to be the sole provider of regional flying and at least keep the flying within the AMR umbrella.

I personally would rather fly a E170 at a mainline carrier than at Eagle. I have 37 more years until retirement. It wasn't my ultimate goal to be an Eagle pilot for life, but the industry has changed a lot in the past 5 years since I got hired. If Eagle got E170s I would be nowhere close to being able to hold a CA position on it, or any other Eagle plane for that matter. My main concern is for APA and AMR as a whole to remain competitive and avoid making irrational and emotional decisions like Eastern, Pan-Am, TWA, and the list goes on...