AMRs scope opener specifically allows ANY commuter operator and purposely does not make distinction between Eagle, Mesa, GoJet, or any other outsourcer. As far as the AA pilots go, it wouldn't make any difference whether their jobs were outsourced to GoJet or Eagle, so if AMR was to somehow extract 76 seat aircraft from AA, AA pilots might as well allow them to go to the cheapest bidder "to remain competitive." And Eagle is not "competitive" which I'm sure AMR will explain to you in a couple years.

And to "keep the outsourced flying under the AMR umbrella" how much more of MY paycheck are YOU willing to give Arpey to subsidize the non-competitiveness of Eagle? Sorry, no sale.

If it comes to that, a chapter 7 is ok too. There's way to much capacity in the system now and that might allow UAL's "competitive contract" to survive, while those nasty AA pilots hit the unemployment line.

It would seem somehow iconic that "American" Airlines go belly-up . . . . just like the present government of this republic is herding the nation to.

Probably should change your avatar to "Live on your knees and take what they give you"

You might want to research why the companies you cite went out of business. It was largely management incompetence, not scope.

 

It is well known AMR intends to bring in another feeder for whipsaw purposes against Eagle in the future, so nothing new there. Most everyone here is certainly well aware of that. However when (not, if) they contract out to another feeder, they'll have to set aside some of the money they have kept for themselves with Eagle for the outside carrier to be profitable in and of itself, which is money they normally would have kept. They also wont be able to get a way with charging staggering fees for equipment and services as the other carrier couldn't afford that and would have it's own, so more money lost there. On the labor front, it's getting to the point, most of Eagle's pilots are topping out at their scales and will not be making much income progress over the next few years, wheras many of the other formerly junior pilots at other regionals will continue to see their compensation get close to Eagle due to increasing longevity. Add it all up in 3-5 years and another carrier is likely to cost AMR MORE than Eagle.

The idea that it will be AA PILOTS that "allow" (read decide) what regionals acquire whatever percentage of new 76-seaters is more then unlikely. It will be hard enough for the APA to get what language they can out of scope and AMR granting the APA language that gives the APA approval of any pirticular regional carrier is laughable, especially if it is aimed against Eagle purely out of spiteful anger. Good luck with that, but I see no hope of it.


I don't think you have to worry about AA going Chapter 7 as AMR wont let that happen. Again, should emotion overtake the situation at AA, AMR will make successful and appropriate use of the reorganizational abilities of Chapter 11 to do just that.............RE-organize. They've seen others do it and have the luxury of seeing their mistakes and avoiding them . Analysts uniformly agree, one of UAL's principle mistakes was not going deep enough on cuts and AMR will definately go deeper than they would have had practicality won over emotion and the issues were negotiated instead of implimented.

Both Eagle and AA will be here 10 years from now, but different from where each is now. One question will be who the "new kid on the block" will be regional wise..................time will tell, but not much time.

 

Since Eagle is wholly owned by AMR I find it hard to believe that it would be cheaper to pay an outside company to do the same flying we do. AMR wins by having its cheap(er) labor in-house. AMR wants other regionals to do feeder flying strictly for whipsaw purposes(especially when 2012 comes around). I am sure at least 1 other carrier will wind up doing feeder flying, but Eagle will do the majority share because that is the most profitable situation.

If AA contracts some outside company to do feed flying those routes are gone from AA for the duration of the contract. If a route is given to Eagle to fly it can switch back and forth between AA/Eagle seasonally, and to maximize profit by right-sizing the aircraft with the route. Give away a route to Republic and you wont see it again. Ever.


Ok, how about a different angle. Are you willing to give up your pension and take a 15% paycut in order to keep the flying on the APA side? Those will be the two options. Give on scope and get a payraise, or keep the flying for a reduction in your pay/benefits.



AA isnt going anywhere. Eagle isnt going anywhere. Its just a matter of how much smaller they both will be in the future.


I never said they went out of business because of scope. I stated irrational and emotional decisions were the downfall. All I ask is that everyone takes a real hard look at what is going on at other airlines we are competing against. I'm on your side, I want AA to be successful and profitable. Without AA we at Eagle wouldnt have jobs. And it goes the other way as well.

 

They just announced more displacements.

 

Yep, it looks like a shuffle from the DFW ATR to the EMB for the most part. totaling perhaps 15 positions, but a loss of a half dozen EMB captains in LAX will hurt there. Most there are from the area.

 

The pain continues

 

BS. They want complete flexibility to contract out with the commuter clause and I believe they want to get rid of Eagle rather than sink a lot of money into acquiring new airplanes and dealing with the upcoming labor issues. Just like they want to revenue share with offshore airlines. They want to run a "virtual" airline, not a real one. They also want unlimited 76 seat aircraft which even Delta ALPA with their limp scope doesn't allow.

BS. How do you know? You don't. You need to put in an expense report to AMR for throwing dud fear grenades for them.

I hope you're not negotiating for ALPA in 2012. You'd be whipped before you started.

That said, I think the final outcome (maybe as much as 2 years from now) will be that scope stays pretty much where it is, there's a moderate payraise and an incremental increase in productivity, but certainly not PBS since that involves a small degree of trust. I think Eagle will be divested and the sub-76 seat flying farmed out, and 76 seaters flown by AA albeit probably at a lower than F100 rate. I also don't think there will be a BK nor a strike. I have also lost faith that the Obama administration will do anything but their typical empty PR pap for labor. So, the RLA will remain the same. It's not going to be full 1992 restoration, nor is it going to be a BK contract without the BK. My 2 cents. Some AE guys are saying Bk by Christmas regardless. Either way, that's ok.

 

BS. They want complete flexibility to contract out with the commuter clause and I believe they want to get rid of Eagle rather than sink a lot of money into acquiring new airplanes for AE and dealing with the upcoming labor issues. Just like they want to revenue share with offshore airlines. They want to run a "virtual" airline, not a real one. They also want unlimited 76 seat aircraft which even Delta ALPA with their limp scope doesn't allow. And maybe it's not really the 76 seaters they want but something a little larger that they have more flexibility with.

Besides Eagle service is atrocious. I fly on other regionals and deadhead on Eagle and from my personal experience AE is by far the worst . . . and I'm not saying AA is any shining star with that regard either. And it's got nothing to do with the pilots at either AA or AE, but is a serious management failure, especially at Eagle.

BS. How do you know? You don't. You need to put in an expense report to AMR for throwing dud fear grenades for them.

I hope you're not negotiating for ALPA in 2012. You'd be whipped before you started.

Acrimony aside, I think the final outcome (maybe as much as 2 years from now) will be that scope stays pretty much where it is, there's a moderate pay restoration and an incremental increase in productivity, but certainly not PBS since that involves a small degree of trust. I think Eagle will be divested and the sub-76 seat flying farmed out, and 76 seaters flown by AA albeit probably at a lower than F100 rate. I also don't think there will be a BK nor a strike. I have also lost faith that the Obama administration will do anything but their typical empty PR pap for labor. So, the RLA will remain the same. It's not going to be full 1992 restoration, nor is it going to be a BK contract without the BK. My 2 cents. Some AE guys are saying Bk by Christmas regardless. Either way, that's ok.

 

Where did that note come from? Its not in my HI6. All i got was a reassignment notification.

 

Keep thinking that, Wheels. I'll bet it helps you sleep better. Nice of you to admit what it was. As for scope, good luck, but you are going against the grain of the global economy. Tie up your airline with an industry-leading scope clause and see what happens in less than 10 years. I hope you are near retirement because starting over at a regional when you are in your forties is tough. I know since I started over in my late 30's. Not an easy road.