See.... somebody does understand AMR.

It isn't about right and wrong. It's about keeping the employees in all work groups occupied with BS so they can't work together against management. AMRs business model is taught at the ivy league schools MBA programs on how to make labor groups/unions ineffective....

If they can keep you busy checking your hours, your pay errors, arguing for hotels, emailing payroll, denying drops or swaps, ignoring vacation requests, messing up your schedules, nipping away at the contract edges..... then you end up too busy taking care of daily issues to attend union meetings, go cross country for union events, and aren't available to help fight them.

Basically, they would rather spend money making you waste your time fighting them, than to just pay you in the first place.

THAT is who you people are working for....

and you do overtime.... why ?

 

How would working an outside second job be taking away from the furloughed few? Please pal, 2nd year pay is what 30-34 an hour... divided by your duty time it's really half that... so, you can't make 15-17 doing something else? BS


You just got done saying you can't pay your rent, and in the same email, your advocating the pilots reducing their cost... makes a great soundbyte buddy, but just where do you think that reduction will come from other than your paycheck.... STOP DRINKING THE MANAGEMENT KOOLAID !!!!

That was when it was still a profession. You weren't here then.

Great, another fantastic soundbyte.... this didn't stop you from taking a 12 dollar an hour airline pilot job though did it ? Tall talk, no substance.

What does any of that have to do with working overtime?

- end rant -

 

Good post, this definitely sums it all up. Time to go look for a part time job...!

 

Just found this post in another thread... perhaps this will put that urge you have to work overtime in more perspective....

 

OT for long MIA overnights......you bet'cha

 

1. Hours of work are hours of work. Whether they are at AMR or at sonic. If I have to work overtime or get an outside part-time job I will still be taking work out of the available pool. This will still hurt the furloughed pilots in one way or another. This causes others to go after the jobs that our furloughed pilots need to work. In an ideal world none of us would need overtime or a second job. I make $26 bucks an hour. My salary is not close to jet pay. This is a whole other issue though and we won't go into that right now.

2. I don't drink the company Kool-aide just as I don't drink the union Kool-aide. Take both with a grain of salt. By reducing cost I don't mean salary. I mean COST. When I get furloughed I will blame it on a few things.

• A shrinking economy. The company hired me when things were going much better than they are now. People traveled more. I feel that the company has no obligation to employ me if they can't afford to because they are operating at a smaller capacity than when I was hired. If you want to blame anybody, blame the families that aren't going on a vacation this year, blame the business execs that teleconfrence instead of fly to the meetings.

• Pilots who deliberately cost the company as much as they can. I know a few who will do anything and everything to make sure AMR runs out of money. This includes bidding from plane to plane every chance they can so that the company has to train them again and again. This is not only expensive and counter productive, but it is a very immature and bone-headed move. Also, I'm tired of pilots slowing down just so they can time out or over-block. This is what I mean by do your job as you were hired to. If you are filed at Mach .76, don't fly it at .73 just so you get in 5-10 minutes late every flight. In addition, sick call abuse costs the company a lot of money too. Think about how many salaries could be paid if people only called in sick when they actually were sick.

3. I wasn't here then, you're right, but neither were you. We used to be worth looking up to. I'm not asking for those times to come back, but nobody but ourselves can take our pride and professionalism away from us but ourselves.

4. I'm not blaming my low salary on anyone else. I knew the pay-grade when I applied. I just didn't think I would be on turbo-prop pay or stay on reserve so long. What I was trying to say is that until you have done everything you could to make this company profitable, you can't blame others for not doing the same.

5. This was just to sum up my frustration with lazy or dishonest pilots. Stop blaming others and work hard.


My stance on these issues stem from my raising and business degree. It is pretty simple to understand, when the company doesn't make money, neither do you (i.e. you get furloughed), when they do, you do (i.e. you keep your job). Next time you take a swing at me make sure you get a little wood on the ball (all in good fun).

 

wow...and you constantly whine about how much better your regional is than Mesa, Pinnacle etc.......

 

Sorry, don't think so. OH BTW, it isn't my regional.

 

Yes, and while your 8 hours pay day at sonic would require 10 hours per day, and result in perhaps 50 hours away from home and family... the same 8 hour pay day at your airline requires 12-16 hours per day, and results in about 80-100 hours away from home and family. You're making less than 6 bucks and hour for your time as a pilot.

We are not talking about GNP and available jobs per capita. We are talking about the number of pilots required at ONE airline to cover their flying. If you can not admit that flying overtime allows them to keep less pilots on staff, than your MBA is worthless.... get a refund.

all the more reason NOT to work overtime.

Yep, a shrinking economy is a factor. Just as pilots flying overtime is a factor. Pilots as a group do not have control over the economy, you do have control over working voluntary overtime.

FYI, next time your upset about flying with somebody doing .73 instead of .79, when you get there 5-10 minutes late (an on time arrival BTW for DOT purposes), check the calculated fuel burn, vs what you actually used... you may be surprised.


Ah ha, wrong again... I've probably been in and out of this industry more years than you've been alive.

Many still are... if you'd shut off your ipod long enough to listen, perhaps you might just learn something. There are still pilots who ARE Captains... most do not understand the meaning of PIC other than to assume they garner a larger paycheck and log the flight time differently... and - according to the newer younger pilots - refuse to leave and get out of their seat.
Your airline hired you because they saw the ability in you to someday command one of their aircraft. They do not hire First Officers.... they ALL hire furture Captains. Stop whining.

You are kidding me right? You're at AMR, Eagle right? Go look at how long people have been on reserve at American. DECADES ! You may have known the pay grade, but apparently you didn't check into much else.

your still trying to tell people that you don't drink the Koolaid right ?

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with doing your job. We're talking about doing voluntary overtime.

Oh, so that is how it works. Thanks for that... that must explain the executive bonus programs, and how AMR management is compensated up to 10 times more than the other airlines they like to use to compare your salary.


Keep talking (writing) you're making my case for me the more you talk.

 

I can understand junior F/O's not wasting their time with OT, but senior captains can pick up an extra day of work per month (many have 15-18) and make $850 or more. That's a monthly mortgage payment (P & I).

Actually, the pilots that are truly agressive with OT are fairly junior captains who rarely touched OT when F/O's but now see the OT issue completely differently...........especially when they've recently bought a new house because of their recent upgrade and substantial pay raise.

I see this all the time...........it's just the way it is.