marlonmoneda1

That would be right up the alley of ****ed pinnacle pilots to have yet-to-be furloughed mesaba pilots with 3+ years seniority tacked onto the bottom of their list. What is ridiculous is that we would be tacked under our own furloughs who were hired after us as well...while pinnacle could easily shift flying and/or planes to the mesaba side to avoid it all. sigh

Airsupport

Not to start a whole other conversation but are you saying its ok for mesaba to take MORE of our planes? You guys already have 15 of our 200's. I guess it really doesn't matter. Delta, then northwest, could do whatever they wanted with the planes. They pay the lease on the planes. The only planes that belong to pinnacle are our 900's. The only planes that belong to mesaba I believe are the saabs, and some of those are leased from pinnacle. So I would imagine delta can do whatever they want with the planes.

JOHNSCHR

Happy Birthday Pinnacle!

Bartok

XJ owns nothing.

marlonmoneda1

Are you serious? Take more of 'our' planes?! We are all the same now goofball, all the profits go to pinnacle, and all the planes are leased through the same parent company. Plus, unless I understood it wrong, haven't you guys been severely understaffed for a while and are hiring? Why not have people already in an established seniority situation flying under the same banner go ahead and handle the extra? Would save hiring costs and would mitigate seniority issues quite a bit. Oh wait, I know why, you guys just want people under you, even if it means unjustly forcing those with more seniority below you....pathetic.

cencal83406

You're high buddy, you're high.... that's crazy talk. Why would we care to have anyone get furloughed just to end up below us. What strikes me as pathetic is seriously thinking Pinnacle pilots are out to get you by trying to jump up on the seniority train.

marlonmoneda1

While you are correct that it is wrong to label the whole by a few bad apples, I have heard from quite a few pinnacle fo's myself in addition to other friends telling me stories of talk of screwing mesaba guys, and 4 to 1, 5 to 1 integration bs and we owe pinnacle this that and the other. I have never heard in any conversation of mine with fellow xj pilots a single mutterance of abusing the seniority integration process for over the other two pilot groups. Xj pilots will always say date of hire is the only true honest way for integration, even the junior ones. I think this all a sign of bitterness on the part of pinnacle pilots who have been abused for a long time. I understand, Ive been receiving a crap pie for a while just like anyone, but have some decency please.

cencal83406

I think that arises from the confusion with the LOA that the Mesaba and Pinnacle MEC entered into back when we were losing our Minneapolis base (before my time). Apparently, the LOA stipulated that CAs and FOs getting furloughed could be picked up on a 1 for 2 basis (CAs, seniority), and 1 for 3 basis (FOs) with some flush at the bottom. Of course, with the change in labor law, it's impossible to "enforce" a reciprocal anyways, but... the confusion seems to have been with some guys that the Pinnacle pilots were getting shafted, when in fact it seems to me that they had the choice of: "street", or "work with slightly reduced seniority at a new company". That's as far as I understand it.

Hopefully the Mesaba guys sitting at the bottom of our list right now aren't hating life too much, but I am glad that we came to an agreement that would help the staffing of the company, get those guys current and flying again, and provide for them to "move" to their seniority spot during integration... heck of a deal, if you will, for a furloughed guy, considering a lot of the other mergers SEEM to have stapled furloughees.

Re: DOH... unfortunately even this method, seemingly the most fair, can tend to screw over groups of pilots, vs the whole. I definitely don't have my mind set on how this should work (fair = what I want), but I trust the SLI guys from all three carriers to come up with something fair and equitable. I personally think that it'll be similar to NWA/DAL, where it's not straight DOH, rather based on your percentage on the list, which COULD mean guys would be next to each other on a new list with potentially far off DOHs... whatever they come up with, let's just hope it works (or doesn't work) for EVERYONE.

Party on... and as always, if there is something wrong with this post, I'm sure a Pinnacle guy with some inside knowledge.... that Higney fella, will correct me.

lolwut

Date of hire would take XJ FOs who are bottom reserve holders on the Saab and put them in the top half of all FOs on the CRJ-900.

Date of hire would take pilots hired to fly the Q400s that were bought by the Pinnacle pilots, and put them into captain seats on the CRJ-900.

Windfalls aren't allowed. Date of hire isn't going to happen. Its not fair. Everyone should expect to have enough seniority afterwards to essentially hold the exact same seat/base/quality of line that they hold now. To do this will require a creative solution taking into account date of hire, relative, and all other possible methods.


Everyone needs to remember that they're no better than any other pilot in any of the other groups. Everyone here flies regional aircraft. Sure some bases/aircraft are better than others but nobody is bringing positions paying $200k or widebodies to the table here. One must also remember that some of this apparent misguided statements by Pinnacle FOs (as claimed) may be due to the fact that many consider ALPA at Pinnacle to give away any gains that could be made to instead keep things copacetic. Due to that, if you want the union to be fair on the seniority integration, you're going to have to feel like you need to start negotiations at 5 for 1 or something ridiculous like that.

CAPTAINPCL

Its amazing to me how quickly our two pilot groups (9E,XJ) turn on each other...I say give it another month before we start cutting each others throats, have a little faith in our elected members in the union to get the job done, it might be a little while. We all know its not going to get done by the 15th, but give it at least one or two more month before the blood letting starts...

Remember we are all in this together now!!! RIGHT?