(Next) PNCL Vacancy?
12-04-2011 | 12:52 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
From: CRJ Captain
...again, the hot button issue of checkride failures is a red herring. How many crashes have there been when neither pilot had a failed checkride? How many safe flights have been conducted by pilots with multiple checkride failures? These things are always a chain of events...and it started with compensation in this case. Had both pilots been able to afford a hotel room the night before, I guarantee we would not be having this conversation.
12-04-2011 | 02:51 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
12-04-2011 | 04:51 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
From: 737 Left
Anyone who knows anything about aviation KNOWS that Renslow was just startled and didn't know what the hell happened to his airplane. Should he have been the Capt? This is not a training issue. This is being tired an being startled.
The bottom line is- you Colgan, Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots ALL better learn how to grow up and grow up fast. So what if you have to wait 1 year extra to upgrade. Does it suck? Yes. Do you have a job? YES.
If you guys can't learn to get along like professional airline pilots, I guarantee there will be no PNCL Corp left because you guys will destroy it. Now cut the crap.
12-04-2011 | 05:05 PM
#74
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Once the captain stalled the airplane, pure adrenaline, proper airmanship, and proper training take over. Citing fatigue is a scapegoat to further a seperate cause.
Last edited by ColdWhiskey; 12-05-2011 at 06:27 AM.
12-04-2011 | 07:29 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,498
Likes: 506
...again, the hot button issue of checkride failures is a red herring. How many crashes have there been when neither pilot had a failed checkride? How many safe flights have been conducted by pilots with multiple checkride failures? These things are always a chain of events...and it started with compensation in this case. Had both pilots been able to afford a hotel room the night before, I guarantee we would not be having this conversation.
I agree 100%. This accident was not caused by fatigue. This accident was caused because the Captain stalled the airplane, and then insisted on pulling when he should have been pushing. Very poor airmanship at a minimum, and possibly poor training as contributing. Also contributing was poor airmanship in the right seat, not recognizing and being proactive to prevent.
Once the captian stalled the airplane, pure adrenaline, proper airmanship, and proper training take over. Citing fatigue is a scapegoat to further a seperate cause.
Once the captian stalled the airplane, pure adrenaline, proper airmanship, and proper training take over. Citing fatigue is a scapegoat to further a seperate cause.
12-05-2011 | 07:39 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
12-05-2011 | 08:22 AM
#78
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
He allowed airspeed to diminish while he chatted up the FO during sterile operations. He then reacted improperly to stall warning and stick pusher by pulling, when he should have been pushing.
You will never convince me that fatigue will make you forget which way the yoke is to be moved during a stall.
You will never convince me that fatigue will make you forget which way the yoke is to be moved during a stall.
12-05-2011 | 08:42 AM
#80
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 18
Are you sure you work for Pinnacle?
To loosely quote an old "stall profile":
"Pull back on the yoke (respecting the stick shaker) to avoid losing altitude."
I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't read it with my own eyes. We were taught to pull up (and if we got the pusher, to release enough pressure to get the pusher to stop, then continue pulling back).
Why do you think the company quietly issued a revision to the manual shortly after Feb 12, 2009, effectively removing the stall profiles from the CFM? Why do you think that it's now no longer a pass/fail item on the PC? It's a demonstration only, one in which we definitely establish at least some sort of descent to trade our altitude for airspeed...
To loosely quote an old "stall profile":
"Pull back on the yoke (respecting the stick shaker) to avoid losing altitude."
I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't read it with my own eyes. We were taught to pull up (and if we got the pusher, to release enough pressure to get the pusher to stop, then continue pulling back).
Why do you think the company quietly issued a revision to the manual shortly after Feb 12, 2009, effectively removing the stall profiles from the CFM? Why do you think that it's now no longer a pass/fail item on the PC? It's a demonstration only, one in which we definitely establish at least some sort of descent to trade our altitude for airspeed...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
