U don't know

 

No, I don't think you're a bottom feeder or a bad boy. But, the unfortunate realilty is that two of your coworkers unfortunately did tarnish the regional industry.


Nobody knows, but time will tell!


The ATL guys on the 900 are the only ones going to EK now due to their 30 ton rule. We have guys leaving for JetBlue, Fedex, Virgin America, and some just quitting altogether.

 

Such a pathetic thing to say. 3407 received a lot of attention, "watershed" to some. However many airlines have had incidents/accidents that could have been that one "watershed" accident.

How do you think the media would have handled PSA's abort in CRW if there was NOT an EMAS installed 2 years earlier?

What about your very own, Pinnacle Airlines, flight 4712 or even worse, 3701? I am not going to dishonor the dead to try and prove a point to you about who "tarnished" what.

Point is, glass houses...nuff said

 

Tarnished? I didn't know the regional industry had such an illustrious reputation to tarnish in the first place. Granted, with so many people commuting due to the very nature of the industry, 3407 was bound to happen at some point. And it will very likely happen again in the future. Who the next "lucky" carrier will be...only time will tell

 

Juice, Thanks for calling him out with the flight numbers.

interesting to me that the NTSB actually states the FAA rules contributed to pncl 4712.

"Contributing to the accident were 1) the Federal Aviation Administration pilot flight and duty time regulations that permitted the pilots’ long, demanding duty day"

And this in 3701:

"The combination of high altitude and low speed once again triggered the Bombardier's stall warning system. First, "stick shakers" rattled the control columns and disengaged the autopilot to alert the crew of an imminent stall. When the crew didn't lower the plane's nose to gain speed, "stick pushers" forced the control columns forward. The flight data recorder shows that Rhodes and Cesarz overrode the stick pushers three times and forced the plane's nose back up."

I gotta say there is something more than just an isolated incident when colgan, pinnacle, and airfrance all do the same thing. and Im sure there are and will be more.....

 

4712 was the TVC overrun, short icy runway. Hardly qualifies as a industry tarnishing event. That happens at majors too. 3701 was immature idiots going on a joyride flight, knowing they had no pax on board. Would not have happened if they did have passengers. Their tone from the beginning was set because of the fact they had no passengers, so they wanted to push the boundaries. This event didn't get that much media coverage because no passengers died.

Colgan's crash tarnished the industry because of how simply the error was, how simple the recovery was, and how badly they screwed it up. The nail in the coffin was the person responsible for the safety of everyone onboard, was a liar by lying about his previous failures. Had he disclosed his 3 checkride failures to an airline, he wouldn't have beent here that night, and the accident could have been averted. He lied to get to where he was, and that's what has the media tearing this case apart. This is also why regionals (and some majors like Spirit and Atlas) are not touching guys with multiple checkride failures. If you failed one, ok, but if you failed two or more, good luck to you!

Regionals have had plenty of crashes in the past, but this one really was the turning point. Now they know about multiple checkride failures, about pilots who lie about them, about stall training, and about crappy regionals that put money ahead of safety. And please don't say rest issues. This was their first operating flight of the day. The main reason they were tired is because they chose to commute through the night, which resulted in tiredness and fatigue through the day. The real solution here would be to ban overnight commuting. How the hell can you be ready for a 16 hr duty day when you *** has been commuting throughout the country the whole night before? There's no way. Also, one was clearly sick, but too financially poor to call in sick. That is an industry problem and a pilot problem.

 

So you're saying that even though BOTH pilots did the exact same thing (fight the pusher) ... 9Es pilots were the better ones??

BOTH crews screwed the pooch in both accidents.

It sucks that it happened, but I'm glad to see us training to NOT fight the pusher now and to pitch the damn nose DOWN during a stall instead of aiming to MAINTAIN altitude.

 

This is an industry wide problem, not regional vs mainline or even my regional vs your regional. We all know as pilots, stall recovery requires reducing angle of attack yet time and time again situations occur where pilots override the automation. I flew with a sim instructor last week and I asked him what people are having trouble with in the sim today. His response was a shocking number of pilots pull back against the stick pusher as oposed to letting the nose come down and get the wing flying again. We need to stop pointing fingers and get serious about upset recovery or more accidents are going to follow no matter who you fly on.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...p44-397089.xml

 

When does the displacement come out that says we are parking all the q's? hahaha

 

...again, the hot button issue of checkride failures is a red herring. How many crashes have there been when neither pilot had a failed checkride? How many safe flights have been conducted by pilots with multiple checkride failures? These things are always a chain of events...and it started with compensation in this case. Had both pilots been able to afford a hotel room the night before, I guarantee we would not be having this conversation.