Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional
Embraer 135 returning to XJT >

Embraer 135 returning to XJT

Search

Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

Embraer 135 returning to XJT

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-16-2012 | 06:03 PM
  #81  
mooney's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 captain
Default

Originally Posted by blakman7
Are you kidding? If I were a recruiter at Delta, I would hire a B1900 guy over an RJ guy any day of the week. The B1900 guy will know how to FLY the airplane because that's what they have to do with no autopilot. It's all RAW flying which would make that guy much more proficient. I'm not saying that an RJ guy doesn't know how to fly the airplane because that would simply be a lie but some RJ guys would be more apt to rely on automation rather than flying the darn airplane. I don't know who the hell told you that flying a jet takes more skill but I think that you're HIGHLY mistaken.
I'm guessing you don't have any jet time.....
Why Wouldn't Delta hire an RJ guy with known automation skills to fly their automated aircraft? When's the last time you saw a 767 hand flown 6 legs a day? There's a reason a lot of airlines ask for your amount of "glass cockpit" time...
Flying a jet does not take MORE skill, it takes DIFFERENT skills. Take it from someone that has given hundreds of hours IOE and sim instruction to prop guys coming over to jets...it ain't the button pushing cakewalk you think it is going to be. And yes, I have several hundred hours turboprop time and do not think less of the skills a prop pilot needs, as I said before it is the same skill level just a different set of skills. As someone else mentioned, if I were the hypothetical Delta recruiter, I would prefer a nice mix of prop/jet time, but would probably hire a 100% rj driver over a 100% 1900 driver, all other things equal, because he has experience in the automation and type of flying Delta does. And I'd hire the 1900 guy over the Alaskan bush pilot, even though the bush pilot probably has better stick/rudder skills, the 1900 guy has more "real world airline" time....

flame on...
Reply
Old 01-16-2012 | 07:23 PM
  #82  
SiShane's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
From: 73N-A
Default

Definitely agree with the above statement. It's a different set of skills.
Reply
Old 01-16-2012 | 07:39 PM
  #83  
2StgTurbine's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,842
Likes: 93
Default

Originally Posted by SiShane
Definitely agree with the above statement. It's a different set of skills.
Who said automation and turboprops were mutually exclusive?

When I instructed, I was at a place that had an all glass fleet. The average age of my students was about 45 also. I never saw them have a problem with automation. I even took a 65 year old whose last flight was in the mid 80s in a King Air. He got into a brand new 207 with the latest glass and had little trouble. Twisting some of the knobs and pressing some buttons might have been a little clumsy at first, but he always had a sound understanding of the theory behind the automation. He could understand what he wanted and how to make the automation accomplish his goal.

Also, what do you think happened when aircraft like the 757 and 767 hit the market? Older pilots new to that level of automation were able to transition from aircraft like the 727 that had almost no automation. Or also, how do you explain a 250 hour 172 driver learning how to fly a CRJ? Sure, they might PIC authority and some ADM, but plenty got the button pushing down.

We are talking about 2 different things. You have automation and you have the specific type of turbine engine powering the aircraft. Why not differentiate low bypass jets with hi bypass jets?
Reply
Old 01-16-2012 | 07:50 PM
  #84  
mooney's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 captain
Default

Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
Who said automation and turboprops were mutually exclusive?
Never said that. I was specifically talking about the 1900 the other guy mentioned in regards to automation, and a different skill set required to fly props vs jets for the "which is harder to fly" argument...
Reply
Old 01-16-2012 | 09:03 PM
  #85  
blakman7's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Nevets
Ok, we get get it. You're trolling.
Wow, I was actually serious. Trolling was not my objective but I see that it came off as such and for that, I apologize.
Reply
Old 01-16-2012 | 09:05 PM
  #86  
blakman7's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by mooney
I'm guessing you don't have any jet time.....
Why Wouldn't Delta hire an RJ guy with known automation skills to fly their automated aircraft? When's the last time you saw a 767 hand flown 6 legs a day? There's a reason a lot of airlines ask for your amount of "glass cockpit" time...
Flying a jet does not take MORE skill, it takes DIFFERENT skills. Take it from someone that has given hundreds of hours IOE and sim instruction to prop guys coming over to jets...it ain't the button pushing cakewalk you think it is going to be. And yes, I have several hundred hours turboprop time and do not think less of the skills a prop pilot needs, as I said before it is the same skill level just a different set of skills. As someone else mentioned, if I were the hypothetical Delta recruiter, I would prefer a nice mix of prop/jet time, but would probably hire a 100% rj driver over a 100% 1900 driver, all other things equal, because he has experience in the automation and type of flying Delta does. And I'd hire the 1900 guy over the Alaskan bush pilot, even though the bush pilot probably has better stick/rudder skills, the 1900 guy has more "real world airline" time....

flame on...
Ok, fair enough. I'll agree with this. Thanks for not attacking my opinions like some others.
Reply
Old 01-17-2012 | 02:42 AM
  #87  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Fly782
Thats not the point...

People appreciate the hand flying skills of TProp pilots. Many of guys that will be doing the hiring for the next couple of years flew many of them in their career progression, so they certainly know what it takes and the skills one acquires flying one. They also get warm fuzzy feelings when they know a candidate can hand fly if all goes bad. With all that said jet time on the other hand is just as valuable for different reasons, I think the ideal candidate would have a mix of both IMO. Ask most mainline guys what they flew before they got where they are... 99% chance it was a turbo with a prop added on.
Well then i'm perfect then, 11,000 hours total with 800 in small aeroplanes, 3000 in the ATR and the balance in a jet at 37,000' and PIC in all of them. Sounds pretty balanced to me and I prob make up about 85% of the demographic of RJ pilots. Don't worry! I have no intentions of leaving my job, you can have Delta
Reply
Old 01-17-2012 | 02:45 AM
  #88  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Default

U know FLY782 you can make all the assumptions you want but when it comes down to it its who you know they could careless if you flew a box as long as you meet the requirements and put back a few beer with the right guys, its as easy as that!
Reply
Old 01-17-2012 | 04:01 AM
  #89  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 0
From: AN124 FE
Default

Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
U know FLY782 you can make all the assumptions you want but when it comes down to it its who you know they could careless if you flew a box as long as you meet the requirements and put back a few beer with the right guys, its as easy as that!
Ok? Dont see the need to quote me twice. Just stating my opinion like I said, and yes I am well aware of its all about who you know...
Reply
Old 01-17-2012 | 05:11 AM
  #90  
Trip7's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,205
Likes: 271
Default

Originally Posted by blakman7
Are you kidding? If I were a recruiter at Delta, I would hire a B1900 guy over an RJ guy any day of the week. The B1900 guy will know how to FLY the airplane because that's what they have to do with no autopilot. It's all RAW flying which would make that guy much more proficient. I'm not saying that an RJ guy doesn't know how to fly the airplane because that would simply be a lie but some RJ guys would be more apt to rely on automation rather than flying the darn airplane. I don't know who the hell told you that flying a jet takes more skill but I think that you're HIGHLY mistaken.
At ASA when the ATRs when away several pilots struggled mightily with the transition to the jet. One was fired. Flying the jet takes a very different skillet that some dont have. One of them being energy management. The TP will do anything you want it to at anytime. In the Jet you have to be ahead of the plane and configured before it will do what you want it to. For example, in the B1900 almost any pilot can comfortably do 250 to the marker. In the CRJ900, you need a seasoned pilot or it'll most likely end up in a go around

As far as hand flying, the king air series including the 1900 is one of the easiest hand flying airplanes in the world. A VERY stable aircraft. I'd have no problem hand flying it 6 legs a day. Now I can only speak for the crj, but flying it six legs a day would be a pain in the butt with all the artificial "pitch feel" feedback you get in the controls. To make a long story short, it's way more sensitive than your average TP, especially at higher altitudes with the higher speeds. The plane feels as if it was built to be flown with the AP on 90% of the time
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
wmuflyboy
Flight Schools and Training
30
03-26-2023 06:18 PM
LucasM
Part 135
21
10-31-2008 02:00 PM
Splanky
Regional
11
09-17-2008 02:52 PM
FuelJetA
Part 135
11
03-12-2006 03:29 PM
Lennon
JetBlue
0
07-01-2005 07:27 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices