Okay...I'm not one to advocate one career path or another, but there is at least Some disparity between those with aviation university education and those without.

I think of it this way, whose airplane do you want your family to get on? On one side you have the mom and pop graduate, who got all his ratings and in order to get to 1500, bought a Grumman or a 1950 C152 and flew it all over Kansas to build his time (in VFR, because it's just too much work filing flight plans!). Or washed airplanes and got the chance to fly pipers around the pattern a few times a week.

Or the UND or ERAU graduate, who just like the other guy, got all his ratings by taking the SAME test. But maybe he only has 800 hours. But that graduate has been training for the airline industry since he was working on his private pilot certificate. There are some things people just don't learn at small schools. They don't take semester long CRM classes (or even the hour long brief like during initial), or study in-depth aviation accidents and why they happen. Or take advanced aircraft systems classes that most airline pilots would scratch their head at at times. No, these things aren't going to be found in the commercial PTS and then quizzed on. But it's knowledge that they can use and apply from the begginning of their training to when they are at a 121. Is an extra 700 hours of pattern work and cross country from bum****** to east bum****** the same as that education? IMO no.

Again, I'm not saying that just because they attended a school their leaps and bounds better than the next guy, but some consideration should be given. You are getting SOMETHING for that extra 100K, whether some people believe it or not

 

After 5 years as a CFI, I've seen/flown with people with college degrees in aviation related fields that simply could not fly as well as some with a HS diploma, little college or even a GED. Not that it was always the case, but IMO, a balance between theory, the text books, and practical application in the airplane is where it's at. Book smart doesn't mean you can fly, nor does it mean you're safe or unsafe.

 

You're equating military experience to getting ratings at a 141 school? Last I checked military guys weren't getting a free pass. Granted we're not required to have as many hours total, but I passed the 2000 hour mark in Pakistan transitioning between combat ops as a mission commander, not drilling holes in the pattern at XYZ airport.

 

What about decision making, what about actual experience. CRM classes, come on is it really rocket science, no. I know many guys that worked there way from the local FBO to an airline cockpit, and I can guarantee you I would trust them anyday over some person who had all the right classes in college, and didn't have the common sense to see they were spending 100s of thousands for a 20000 dollar job. No I will take the guy who flight instructed, flew cargo, or seaplanes in Alaska, etc, you know why, because they have had to make thousands of more decisions in real world conditions in small airplanes, not in some simulator In North Dakota. Is 1500 hrs really that much to ask, no, get out and work for it. The only exception I can see is for the military due to the low number of hours some of them fly during there career.

 

I would honestly feel more comfortable with the person who flew all over the place in the Grumman. I think that learning by doing, by making mistakes while on your own, leads to a higher level of correlation (the highest level of learning) than what one might learn at a strictly standardized puppy mill. Certainly it's wonderful to have access to advanced classes, but these classes are not limited to the University environment. These puppy mills also tend to build their graduates into thinking that they are "super pilots" just because they attended a name brand school. In my opinion, the super pilot mentality is a very dangerous mentality to have in professional aviation. I'd like to think that the person who purchases their own aircraft, in your scenario, by flying all over has had enough stumbling blocks in the real world flight environment, to remind him/her to stay humble. Also, I'm skeptical of any training institution that has an in-house pilot examiner. I would much prefer the school that uses an unbiased third party.
Both worlds can provide excellent training in separate ways. Claiming that one path of training is better than the other shows a lack of understanding the other aspects and benefits of from other parts of general aviation.

just my tarnished two pennies

 

I'll take the Grumman guy every day of the week and twice on Sunday. At least he knows what he's doing.

 

All of you sound like idiots.

 

Agreed with the above. And the attitude from those from flying universities that they're better pilots even with half the hours in their logbook than those who went out and flew around is a big part of the reason why they're not that great.

Not to mention with a 4 year flying degree, you get put through a cookie cutter syllabus. At a small part 61 school you get flight training specifically tailored to your needs, abilities, and skill from day 1.

A lot of those classes mean absolutely nothing in the real world... what matters in the real world is knowing how to make really fast really good decisions when something isn't going well and how to do day to day flying stuff.... talk on a radio, manage a descent, etc. Thats stuff you get through flying an airplane and actually doing it, not by sitting in a classroom.

 

I think your sentiment is misguided.

Experience is no substitute for education, and education is no substitute for experience. The mom and pop 1500 hour pt. 91 guy falls short in education. The best compromise is to balance the two. Is 800 hours ideal? no. However, the educated 800 hour pilot has a stronger foundation to build on and has some experience to back it up.

The learning curve of a young pilot, be it CFI or Military, is steepest in the first few hundred hours. I would venture to say that ~1000 hours and strong educational background is a realistic compromise to begin training at an airline.

 

Talking on the radio and managing a descend is easy "monkey see monkey do stuff"

While I agree that there are many useless classes in college there are many useful classes as well.

Have you ever wondered why:

Some airports have different spacing requirements than others and how soon you need to slow behind that heavy for minimum separation?

Why a 75 requires more space than a 76 sometimes?

Why the Jet stream is where it is at a certain time of year?

Why an inverter operates at 400hz?

Knowing whats going on behind the scenes means the difference behind a driver and a pilot.

When **** hits the fan you will need both experience and education. Being a mindless jet jockey with minimal education but tons of non-eventful hours will not help much in a pinch.