The problem is if you quit, are fired or were laid off , even with all this experience you start off at the BOTTOM of the pile. With 1st year pay and on probation. Do you think the doctor gets treated like this. What about the Union worker for the Auto Industry, carpentry ,etc do they start at the BOTTOM ? It's time all pilots in every union get a National Senority Number. That follows you to your new job. The FAA wants us to get all these rating, have a current medical and now 1500 hours/ATP for crap pay. The 1500 Hours reg will stay, buy the National Senority # can change. It won't help me, but it would help the younger pilots looking at this profession. It's time we all stop eating our own and work a one group.

 

It would be nice if a national seniority list was based on years served. I say this as a guy who has never been furloughed. It would protect us.

 

Ya'll really think an airline is going to start a new pilot off on anything but first year pay. Your prior experience means jack when it comes to newhire training. You're still going through the full program no matter how much experience you have. Your initial still costs the airline the same money as someone who hasn't been there and done that.

The whole deal is a non-starter.

 

Scumby gets a SHACK, right on target.

Once a pilot has seniority number, his lacks mobility--the ability to tell an airline PI** OFF, I'm going elsewhere. Then, mgt has that pilot because a 40% pay cut is better than an 80% cut required by changing companies.

Having said that, I haven't a clue how to institute a national list. The idea as been batted around for years, but too many pilots have too much invested in the present system.

GF

 

+1 to everything said about "Paying dues", "Building experience", and "Flight Instructing".

I did the CFI route as well as beg, borrow, and pay for the multi time I needed to get my career off the ground.

For all you regional airline guys keep up the good fight!!! In a lot of ways I envy guys flying those shiny jets with autopilots and a/c while I hand fly a dirty turboprop and sweat to death. In the end it will all be worth it.

I hope this new law helps weed out all those guys/gals who did it because they watched "top gun" and thought it was an easy way to make money and get laid. The guys/gals who never got beat up in the summer heat in a 172 trying to teach a student steep turns, or honed their ninja like reflexes by saving a couple hundred bad landings.

 

I’m completely against a National Seniority List and it will never happen. Simply put it’s a conflict of interest.

Plus protection’s an illusion.

 

The problem with a national seniority list is that it spreads risk.

A pilot is now free to make a risky move with their career (such as going to a startup)... and if it doesn't play out, everyone pays as that pilot can now jump ahead of you on the seniority list of your carrier. We don't need a national seniority list... it wouldn't work and its impossible anyways.

What we need is the following:

- Close the QOL, benefit, and pay gap between a newhire and a topped-out pilot. Being a newhire should be a livable position (financially). Yes, there should be reward for staying at a company, but nothing like the vast differences there are today between the two ends of the seniority list.

- Separate pilot groups into more than one "interviewable" position. ie: Make it so that captains are a different seniority list from first officers and that you have to interview for that captain spot. Sure, it doesn't seem like a good idea at first since you'd have to interview for that 4th stripe, but everyone else would have to also. Allow different requirements for pilots already at the company versus pilots coming from the outside. This is how it works in the real world... you can go to another company and interview for a position of your level of experience. That means that when an airline goes under or furloughs happen, the experienced pilots will have a shot at other airlines of obtaining a job similar to what they had before.

 

First, a national list would had to have been instituted as part of labor protection in '78 of the Deregulation Act. Second, it would have applied to the incumbents as of that date and evolve from that position. Third, it would only have applied to those under a union contract, no startups allowed. Fourth, you would be able to exercise your DOH when another carrier either was hiring (had openings) or when your carrier went bust and other carriers had openings or were buying your company's assets.

If seniority and fraternal unionization means anything, it means those with seniority have a tangible asset that extends beyond their current employer. Right now, all pilots are trapped by their number and how the company fares in the market. Hence, you have guys that "lucked out" looking down on guys who just happened to be hired at a company going under. For years, AA pilots were the "sky Nazis" who everyone envied, but in any merger now, will get the staple treatment. National Seniority would give them a dignified way to finish their careers.

GF

 

+1

The vice grip that the company has on us via the seniority list has to end.

I find it disheartening when I talk to other pilots about it, and (as this thread shows) all you get is a million reasons why it won't work. It would benefit us all, yet some people seem perfectly happy just accepting the crappy system as it is.

 

Hello all, I know I am bringing this thread back to life...but before it's too late, which I believe the comment period closes the end of April...

I just started reading the comments made on the 1500/ATP Rule (FAA–2010–0100). So far, out of the sampling of roughly 1600 comments, I see mostly;

1) Flight Schools that *swear* they are impartial but mysteriously do NOT support the 1500 hour rule or

2) young pilots with less than 1500 hours who think they know everything and of course, do NOT support the 1500 hour rule.

I have never made a comment before, but here is the process;

1) go to Regulations.gov

2) in the blue search window type in FAA–2010–0100

3) under Title should be "Pilot Certification and Qualification Requirements for Air Carrier "
look to the far right where it says "Submit a Comment"

4) the rest is self explanatory