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Old 03-20-2013 | 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherPLT
With all this talk about non-concessionary pay scales and work rules going into this contract, I'm shocked L-XJT reps agreed to something less than us. Didn't we have long discussions about adding to the pay scales and how we want the moon? What happened to the backbone?
Actually the LXJT did a pre-arranged deal with the company prior to Arbitration on many items. Then they asked the Arbitrator to include them in his ruling so the ASA MEC would not have ratification rights to agreed items. They did it to save McKnight's SmartPref.

Backdoor deals always come out into view sometime.
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Old 03-20-2013 | 06:49 AM
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So L-XJT MEC went to the company own their own, behind ASA's back, and negotiated lower pay than what L-ASA guys currently have.

Is this a True or False statement?
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Old 03-20-2013 | 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bozo
Actually the LXJT did a pre-arranged deal with the company prior to Arbitration on many items. Then they asked the Arbitrator to include them in his ruling so the ASA MEC would not have ratification rights to agreed items. They did it to save McKnight's SmartPref.

Backdoor deals always come out into view sometime.
I see.

(Filler)
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Old 03-20-2013 | 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ja2c
So L-XJT MEC went to the company own their own, behind ASA's back, and negotiated lower pay than what L-ASA guys currently have.

Is this a True or False statement?
Sort of. They knew this clause of their contract would allow the arbitrator to impose a rate lower than ours by looking at industry standard, including bankrupt airlines. So they negotiated in secret with the company (actually fought the ASA MEC's request to be included) to include their non-seniority PBS system as part of the deal, then sent it to the arbitrator. Now, they're "claiming" "It wasn't us, it was the arbitrator".

So yes, they knew what they were doing the whole time. They screwed us. And their scheduling chairman is even over on The Pipe bragging about it.
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Old 03-20-2013 | 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ja2c
So L-XJT MEC went to the company own their own, behind ASA's back, and negotiated lower pay than what L-ASA guys currently have.

Is this a True or False statement?
The Company exercised a clause under their current CBA to negotiate a rate for a new aircraft. They are able to do this. They did not involve the ASA MEC at all in the process. They did not involve the ASA Negotiators either. Meaning they did not use every possible resource to secure the best possible deal for their pilots.

What has happened is a ****ing match and the LXJT leaders, and negotiators, feel they know everything there is to know about negotiating. What they haven't noticed is that they are going to have to give up even more. And then there is the SEN. List.

To me it sounds like someone that is bipolar.
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Old 03-20-2013 | 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Jetlinker
No, we didn't have a say or a vote. That's why it's called ARBITRATION.

Management needed to get 70 seat rates from us one way or the other, so they exercised an option in our current contract. It was a brilliant move on their part, and it screws us all over.
You would have if your reps would have submitted only the open issues. And Arbitrator only rules on very narrow issues. This "book" that came out from him was done before it got to him.
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Old 03-20-2013 | 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Bozo
The Company exercised a clause under their current CBA to negotiate a rate for a new aircraft. They are able to do this. They did not involve the ASA MEC at all in the process. They did not involve the ASA Negotiators either. Meaning they did not use every possible resource to secure the best possible deal for their pilots.

What has happened is a ****ing match and the LXJT leaders, and negotiators, feel they know everything there is to know about negotiating. What they haven't noticed is that they are going to have to give up even more. And then there is the SEN. List.

To me it sounds like someone that is bipolar.
Bozo, you're up the legalities and precedent of these things. Do you believe this now guarantees we (L-ASA) take a pay cut on the 700/900 in a JCBA?
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Old 03-20-2013 | 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Bozo, you're up the legalities and precedent of these things. Do you believe this now guarantees we (L-ASA) take a pay cut on the 700/900 in a JCBA?
I want to wait and read the ruling before I say anything. The terms sheet has a lot of holes in it. I can see several MackTrucks coming.

I really feel sorry for the line guys at LXJT. This whole process has left them out there without the tools to understand and to be educated on this whole process. They should have been included in the education process along the way.
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Old 03-20-2013 | 07:53 AM
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(Unless my math is off) It looks like the new L-XJET 70-seat rates are about an average of 2.8% lower than the current L-ASA 70-seat rates. Obviously not ideal, and I'm sure they will exert downward pressure on the JCBA rates, but how much damage will 2.8% really do?
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Old 03-20-2013 | 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by todd1200
(Unless my math is off) It looks like the new L-XJET 70-seat rates are about an average of 2.8% lower than the current L-ASA 70-seat rates. Obviously not ideal, and I'm sure they will exert downward pressure on the JCBA rates, but how much damage will 2.8% really do?
It's nearly 10% at the top, which will cause the most damage because those guys have had the lowest raises over the last decade. I figure they've been able to secure about 6% over the last 10 years, which ends up being a pretty disgraceful pay cut assuming inflation. A 10% cut will take them back to late 1990's rates.

I'd say its pretty damaging if we get these new rates shoved down our throats.
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