Cubdriver

[working around poor internet connection]

I disagree. The amount of advanced education and training is what counts and they are the same. An engineer may make an incompetent artist and vice-versa, but both are highly trained. The standard for entry is a 4 year degree for these jobs. You can argue semantics white versus blue, but the amount of advanced education is similar. Any regional airline pilot will tell you they aspire to being a major airline pilot where a 4 year degree is the norm, so the analogy holds. Even if it didn't, and pilots were just fancy bus drivers, the total amount of training is sufficient to argue the salaries should be comparable.

RV5M

You've effectively said nothing by exaggerating my point. And the cost of our equipment isn't justification for inflated compensation.

BoilerUP

Capital cost of the equipment (and the liability of the equipment's contents) speaks to the high level of responsibility given to the people operating it.

That high level of responsibility is justification for "inflated compensation." Its the reason why 777 pilots are compensated more than E145 pilots.

Alternately, as my diesel mechanic father has always said, "You don't pay me for what I do - you pay me for what I know." He doesn't get paid to put air in tires and replace hydraulic hoses, he gets paid to know a given symptom means a piston ring has failed and requires a top overhaul, which can be done in the field by one man in two days without the need to remove the engine from the piece of equipment.

Piloting, among many other careers, isn't much different.

Cubdriver

As an FYI, there are precise definitions available from the US Dept. of Labor detailing exactly what differentiates one level of skill versus another in any kind of professional job. It's not a matter of debate as far as they are concerned, they use phrases like "makes decisions using prior education or training equaling or exceeding x years, with OTJ oversight by superiors in making those decisions less than x% of the time"-ie. very detailed. Right off hand I can't recall what they say about pilots.

bcpilot

Have you guys ever wondered why the first year salary is so low???

It is NOT because that is what managements are willing to pay...

It is $22 per hour or even less in many cases, because that is what the negotiating committee asks the managements to pay...

Why does it go from $22 in year 1 to $37 in year 2 ??

Because that is what was negotiated by the people responsible to do so...

Has anyone ever suggested to the mgmt to make the FO pay relatively flat with only COLA every year but a good starting wage to begin with.... NO

Why...?? Because of the mentality that, since I had to go through it, the junior guy should do it too....

And managements know this very well & know even more points where they can exploit the pilots.....

So, I think all this discussion is useless & blaming mgmts for paying less is even more futile, because the mgmt is there to maximinse their own bonus.

The pay & terms are negotiated by the reps that pilots choose... The UNION...

They are the ones who take money from you every month & sell you out every few years & give only a dream of better future in return..

The unions seats are captured by senior pilots, they don't even remember what is was like to be a 1st or 2nd yr FO...

Is there any Jr FO on any seat?? NO

RV5M

I agree, but pilot salaries on the high end are still unrealistic. The skills of a 777 captain are not ten times more valuable than those of an E145 FO. The salary gap is much wider than the range of skill sets.

Edit: I don't think this has always been the case, but technology has changed the nature of the job.

bcpilot

The only good thing is that more & more media is focussing on the fact that pilots are being paid less than live able wages...

I think pilots should use this opportunity & Go out in the media to put the Pilots perspective out there.

Tell people how Colgan was NOT because of pilot stupidity but it happened because the pilots were TIRED & BROKE & mildly sick with cold.

The pilots could NOT afford to check in a hotel to get rest, they could not afford a day off because they could not afford to lose that days pay...

Tell them it is happening every day...

The people will hear that the pilots who are flying them are not well rested & also stressed because of financial issues and for that reason, there may be a potentially dangerous situation of another COLGAN happening....

This will build public opinion & put pressure on mgmts & actually the union reps for a better starting wage.

More Importantly, when this point is repeated again & again that the pilots flying under are NOT safe, this will negatively impact the share price of the airlines on the Wall Street & that is the single most important thing to share holders..

Heads will roll, mgmts will move...

ASK your reps to organize a media strategy...

STRIKE IT GUYS, the iron is getting HOT....

atpcliff

If there is no pilot shortage, then shouldn't all the regional pilots accept concessions to keep their jobs?....with so many chomping at the bit to take them with this "Pilot Glut".

BaronRouge380

Yes, finally! It was about time!

CaptainNameless

Part 117 addressed most of that, as far as government is concerned. If you're tired now, something quite significant has happened to your day. The pay to afford a hotel is another fight, and I can honestly see hotel rooms on request happening before pay goes up.