There is some quantity of truth to this. We seem to have a bit of a culture of of self-abuse in this industry.

 

Those are among a list of reasons why Colgan 3407 happened.
To ignore some of the other factors is trying to put a glossy coat on a tragedy.

 

bcpilot,

So based on what you just said about how pay was negotiated by union, I would say then the pilot pay won't be changing any time soon, if ever. I *highly* doubt any top shelf pilots will give up any pay to help the bottom guy. And if I was airline management, I would come up with a pay scale that would work and blame the unions, specifically the pilots for not helping their own ranks out to shut down this whole "pilots being paid like crap" party line.

So basically, the regional airlines are likely set to implode.

 

Translation: Low pay and pilot labor inelasticity [willingness to do a job for hobby pay due to a misconstrued perception of future opportunity] allowed two people to be left unsupervised where they had no business being in, the cockpit of a for-hire transport category turbine equipment.

You could just say that and not be cryptic. The dead don't care.

At any rate, the regionals should implode. Sounds logical; they can't raise pay on the flying contracts, not for what they bid them for. I see no problem in that arithmetic. Nobody is owed air service. This is really, in the end, good for the profession.

The only people who would have a problem with this are a glut of dreamers who are going to be left out of the cockpit. Thing is, they were never gonna make major CA anyways. Too many hands chasing too few jobs. It is what it is. I love flying as much as the next guy, but I also know when to fold them. I find that forced outcome to be more economically advantageous for them in the long run. I sure hope someone would have my back and told me when I'm throwing good money after bad. Friends don't let friends become hung-start airline pilots.

 

Would not be surprised if this will come in the near future.

Management has to do something to attract pilots and they do not have much to do with how the total amount the company is willing to pay for the crew is divided right now. That will probably change.

It is the union or pilot "representatives" in each companies that puts together a contract that equals in total sum what the company is willing to pay for a crew. That contract is presented to the company that verifies that the total cost match what they are willing to pay and it is then presented to the pilots for a vote. These entities that divide the money and put together these TAs are controlled by senior pilots that (as other have mention here) do not care about the Junior ones at the bottom of the pay scales and that is why there is such a difference between the Captain pay and the FO pay at the regional level and that is why we have such ridiculous low pay for the starting FOs and FOs in general.

There are not many senior Captains at the Regionals that would be willing to share part of what they make at the highest pay scales with the lowest paid FOs living on poverty wages. They just do not care, they are selfish and think that the FOs will eventually benefit from it when they get to that seniority.

The reality of the Regional industry is changed and it does not longer support this tremendous difference between Captain and FO pay. That problem has also created lifers at the Regional level and the Regionals was never a level that would or should support lifers.

The Regional pay scale is based on fast upgrade and this is kept alive by selfish senior people that refuses to share the available sum of pay in a more fair way. Many places have 8-10 year FOs that never had a chance to upgrade. These FOs are Now since the FAA passed the new rules PIC typed in the aircraft, hold ATP, have to sign documents and acars and are hold responsible like a Captain without getting the pay.

The Regional FO position is not a career seat and they are not protected in any way like the FOs in major companies. At the same time some Regional companies have been able to put aside great amounts of cash, buy airplanes, make many stupid mistakes, waste big amounts of money and buy companies. So for management to say that there are no margins to increase the sum they are willing to pay for a crew and pay the pilots better is not the reality of things.

When management can raise their salaries by 60% and the company is able to buy back shares for millions, buy other companies and put huge airplane orders then there is plenty of room to raise the crew pay.

 

No need to be cryptic as you say.
It is all there is a well documented investigation. And as it clearly points out - there was more to it than the other poster pointed at regarding casual factors.

 

You know who you are SKYW INC!!

 

That's it, blame the greedy old timers for not moving on to the majors to make room for the newbies. And how dare they expect to be paid more for increased experience.

Did you not look at your company's pay scale prior to accepting employment? Don't you think you with your vast experience should be paid more than a new hire?

And FOs don't sign for the aircraft. They sign that they, their minds and bodies, are airworthy. That's completely different.



u

 

Give me a break, sure experience should be paid more but not several times the starting guy while he is on food stamps, how about a bit of balance and less greed? how about a bit solidarity with the guys at the bottom? How much is enough for you while the guy at the bottom is on food stamps?

Sure I saw the pay scales at the regionals before getting on but that does not mean I think they are right or that I think they can't be changed.

By the way, I think the FOs sign not only for the airworthy body and mind like you call it but also the weight and balance and the can, they also check the can is up to date.....

 

Good FOs have always done that. It is the CA that's signing for the aircraft and has final responsibility for insuring a safe flight. Maybe one day you will understand the difference. If you do, you will eat your words.