Osprey216

Good for them.

JamesNoBrakes

Maybe, was there ever a "pilot mill" path to major airlines? Methinks that most major airline pilots are ex-military pilots, at least that's the going rate for the ones I meet. This has been the classic "feed" for major airlines. Along the way they figured out they could save money by contracting out new flying to regionals and then they could get pilots to fly for said regionals by dangling the possibility of "one day being able to be a real airline pilot" and fly for one of those legacy carriers, but in reality the regional pilots are kept as regional fodder. Not because of any intentional action, just because this is the way the interviews and hiring process has always gone. You got 10 years in the military as an officer, PIC of turbine aircraft, college degree, possible experience with a heavy platform like B-52s, C-17s, etc and at the least the discipline required to complete training for such a platform. There are decent reasons for this and the idea that people can go to a regional for just a couple years and head on to a major has been dangled by AOPAl, Kit Darby and all the "gang" (colleges, pilot mills, etc) to further their own interests, as you say. As a "path" to major airlines, the pilot mill and pilot university thing is somewhat "myth" and somewhat untried conjecture. They want it to work, but it really hasn't yet. In the future when everything in the military is drones, it might be forced to work..

tomgoodman

True, and therefore individuals are likely to make some "bad" decisions, but they won't all make the same bad decisions. As I recall, the theory holds that, for very large groups and over time, the net behavior tends to appear informed and rational, something like the physics of subatomic particles. What an individual person or particle will do (or "should" do) is unknown.

bedrock

Well the new tactic of the RAA seems to be that the Colgan crash was a one-off thing that was a problem with their training dept. only. Bedford's line is "we would rather park airplanes than hire unqualified pilots. Also the RAA is not rejecting the rest requirements, they know that is a losing battle. I think, they will lobby for govt. financing of flight education, work a deal with all ATP's and dangle more flimsy flow-throughs. None of those tings will get the attention of the 3407 families. The loss of EAS service to communities WILL get the attention of the various congress members as this part of the pork-barrel. A lot of these places don't need EAS, but the esteemed senatah doesn't want to drive 3 hours to get home.

DanTheSasquatch

I maintain some hope that the airlines really will experience a "pilot shortage" but I'm not going to place any bets on it. I think there should at least be steady movement (even if it is slow). It will be a few years before I will even get a shot at the regionals, so I might be in a great position, or I may just be in a pilot ghetto (which I would be inclined to decline. I would rather find work elsewhere than become a part of the issue). Time will tell!

JungleBus

That's rather strong, and frankly posts like this don't do anything to educate wannabees, because they discount it as the ranting of someone who's completely disgruntled. If you really think it sucks, explain why.

For me, it comes down to this:
-The flying itself is enjoyable. But I'm an aviation nerd at heart & have been since childhood, I turn off the automation quite a bit and hand fly, and I'm a simple enough guy to still enjoy that after 20 years of flying. Not everyone does. Some are over it by year 2.
-You'll spend a lot of time away from home. I have no kids and an independent wife, am fairly restless and don't like to stay in one place for long, so it's perfect for me. But for a homebody or someone with kids or a needy wife, it could be torture.
-You're in a notoriously unstable industry & stand an excellent chance of finding yourself out of work & unable to find similar employment at some point, or at least having to change employment at lower pay a few times.
-The industry is primarily concentrated in major population centers, particularly in the eastern half of the country, and you need to be willing to relocate numerous times throughout your career or else have the huge stress, time & financial burden of commuting.
-The regionals are pretty soul-destroying. If your individual airline doesn't treat you like dirt, their major airline partner will, and if the major doesn't treat you like dirt, a portion of their pilots will. And if everyone treats you well and life is pretty good, you're likely expensive enough that you'll shortly find yourself losing flying to someone who's being treated very poorly/cheaply indeed. Rinse and repeat for a decade or better. It's really tough to keep a positive attitude and see better things ahead, as many posters here demonstrate on a daily basis.
-12 years after graduating, I still have much of my student loan debt, and flying is almost twice as expensive as when I went through. The return on investment simply isn't there until you get to the majors, and when you get there is a total crapshoot that depends as much on luck as good choices or personal qualities you may have. Have had a few friends get there after 3-5 years at the regionals, quite a few more with 10+ years and no nibbles yet.

Now, this is the stuff nobody told me when I started 20 years ago, because forums weren't around then & none of my family or friends were pilots. Had airlinepilotcentral been around, I probably still would have gone into aviation, because I ate, drank and slept flying as a teen. But I'm a very distinct minority. Most of my college aviation friends were going into it for money, lifestyle, etc. Many of them stopped flying after 9/11. And right now it's basically only the aviation nerd kids that are still going through. Ergo, readily available information on quality of career = pilot shortage (or scarcity, if you will).

kfahmi

You're absolutely right, but if you look at the pilot profession from a purely rational, economic perspective...

...then only the guys who've made it to the left seat of a widebody can be said to have been 'rational' actors. And since most of those guys had no idea when they started, whether they'd wind up in those coveted positions, or furloughed without a pension like so many of their friends, we could say that they are not 'rational' actors, but merely the lucky ones.

Why do I say this? Look at the cost, time, and level of personal achievement required to make it to the front office of any airliner, whether that be a B-1900 or an A-380. You've got to invest a significant amount of time and money to get to the point where you're employable at a regional. You have to be medically fit, and you're going to need a higher degree of professionalism, interpersonal skills, and general intelligence than, say, the local station agents of San Francisco's BART train system (who are only required to hold GEDs, are probably banned from employment if their IQ breaks three digits...and who make six times as much as a regional new-hire FO.)

So when you consider everything you have to do in order to even get an interview at a regional, and then look at your financial compensation for doing that job...well, from a purely rational perspective, any economist would conclude that you, and every other pilot on that same path, are completely and utterly irrational.

Had any of us invested the same level of effort and money in, say, learning how to trade derivatives or junk bonds or package and sell credit default swaps, we'd all be vastly better-compensated than even the most senior mainline widebody captain. (Obviously I'm dramatically simplifying things, but my point is: none of us are rational actors.)

So why do we do it? Because we love flying. And, yes, because those of us who are young enough may still have a chance at one day achieving the sort of pay and lifestyle that only the most senior mainline guys now enjoy. But I'd wager that most pilots employed by the airlines today are there for one simple reason: Because they love flying and can't imagine themselves at a 9--5 desk job. Or, because they've spent their former lives in a 9-5 desk job and realize that they have no wish to spend one more minute of their lifespan in a cubicle.

From a pure economic perspective, pilots as a whole are not rational actors. The supply curve is very much twisted to the advantage of the airlines, and they know it. If Republic turned around tomorrow and said "You know what guys, we're parking the airplanes and offering bus services instead. Same pay, same QOL...but you'll be driving a Greyhound"...well, I think you wouldn't see too many pilots sticking around. The lure of the skies, whether you call it SJS or what have you, is strong indeed. It causes people to do irrational things.

But having said all that, pure economic rationality often leads most of us into professional careers that we despise at worst, and tolerate at best. There is no other occupation on this planet that enchants me more than flying (aside from international playboy, but I keep getting told I don't meet the hiring minima...)

ClickClickBoom

And whom is the dumb one?

And this is why the job will always hover at the lowest end of the payscale.
And for those who think that this is a temporary position, remember that from a business perspective, the only reason that management hasn't placed all the flying at the regional level are the contracts with the unions. With the erosion of scope expect to see more flying, in bigger airplanes at the regionals. Ask yourself, who do you think airline management would rather pay, regional guys at their rate or mainline guys at their rate? If you are delusional enough to believe that mainline pilots are the only ones good enough to fly the big iron, that theory was disproved with the advent of the RJ, think again.

Nantonaku

Being an airline pilot is a job, not a ride at Disneyland. The enchantment will wear off. If you are who you say you are and have the background you claim to have then hopefully you have hobbies/jobs on the side that are more challenging. The smart people in this career are not mentally challenged enough to be satisfied just flying. People who go to high level colleges are usually not stimulated enough to find satisfaction in mundane repetitive thankless jobs.

tomgoodman

The great economist Yogi Berra explained how the marketplace works:
"If people don't want to come to the ballpark, you can't stop them."