One of the most ignorant posts I've seen and I just (speed)read this whole thread.

Show me any airline in the USA that isn't low pay. Pretty much all the airlines are scumbag operations these days....I'm not talking just regionals. It amazes me how pilots have sold themselves out. They are comparing rotten apples to even more rotten oranges and missing the bigger picture.

Why do we have 2500-3000 hour captains while there are 10000 hour first officers with greater skill and experience? That's the question you should be asking.

Stop comparing rotten airlines to other rotten airlines and think just a little bit why things are the way they are. I'll give you a hint...it's not about greedy management.

 

Nah most of the people hired in the first half of 2013 were prior 121 folks with time on CRJs/ERJs/etc. and/or people with a few thousand hours on corporate jets/135 turbine PIC/etc..

Statistically speaking, it is far more likely some old crusty guys will croak in the cockpit of a 777 at mainline than it is for a Mesa new hire to: 1) Pass upgrade/fed ride/IOE and then 2) Do something that compromises safety.

I challenge you to defend your statement (that street upgrades at a regional are "scary") with accident/incident data. Specifically, please post numbers validating your belief that newly upgraded Captains with 1000+ hours of 121 time (who have passed all of the training/checks required) are more prone to accidents/incidents/safety issues than crusty old lifers at regionals or legacies or LCCS.

Also, if you honestly think street upgrades at regionals are "scary" you obviously weren't even in this industry prior to 2008 or so, because that was the norm for a few years at a handful of CRJ operators.

Regardless of any of the above, most of the people hired at Mesa in 2013 had solid prior 121/135/corporate experience--there's only a small handful who only had CFI experience.

The Captain that will kill your family is the one who thinks he knows more than his new hire FO because he's been sitting there for a decade--not the one who just upgraded and obsessively checks all the writeups/performance data/flight planning and pays attention to everything down to the tiniest detail b/c he just got his first shot at the left seat. I know this from experience, ASAP/FOQA/union work and flying the line at three airlines.

 

Awwwww...is someone sad b/c their regional has a better contract but they have no hope of upgrading or leaving anytime soon?

 

This. ^^^^^^

Statistics also show that the safer instrument pilot is the 100 TT guy who just hand-flew 50 approaches in prep for his rating, compared to a 1000 TT guy who has been using a three-axis autopilot for awhile. It's a matter of quality, not quantity, of experience.

 

I agree. My thought was more toward a first time airline guy but most likely it's exactly how you've stated!

 

Does PIC time really matter THAT much anymore? Seems like the likes of UAL et al are hiring plenty without any.

 

Sad because there are sellouts who are ignoring history...ComAir strike for better pay and work rules for all of us. Sad because there are sellouts who are happy to undercut their peers. Sad because there are sellouts who are chasing upgrades regardless of pay and work rules. Sad because there are sellouts who will do anything to fly a shiny new jet. Sad because you will never know, never understand.

 

Sad that guys with thousands of hours in the left seat (you mentioned Comair) are kicked to the streets and have to watch their houses foreclose, because their new crappy regional is offering them $20,000 a year to commute for reserve.

Sad that ALPA doesn't give a damn about the regionals, because they don't want to upset their mainline masters.

Sad that guys are being ridiculed for making a smart decision and choosing a regional that will get them back in the left seat and off poverty F.O. pay.

 

True statement... see you at mainline. Meanwhile, let the YV young guns enjoy their moment till the next recession. They might regret their decision then. It's about integrity, honesty, experience and character. Not PIC.

 

It's GREAT news that Mesa is now at 18 mos for an upgrade. This is the first sign of future times. The Regionals will revert back to what they once were: a stepping stone & not a career. The previous decade of stagnation has severely retarded the career progression of the vast majority of Regional pilots. Cracks me up when I hear 12-14yr FOs at mainline complaining about how screwed they got by being stuck in the right seat so long.....at least they were an FO at a MAJOR for the lost decade!

Even with another recession and weakened economy, there will be enough Major & LCC jobs for EVERYONE currently at a Regional. Sure a few Regional FO's are being hired but the vast majority will have TPIC. He who has the quickest upgrade wins. Anyone who sits back with their career on autopilot will not progress as fast. Within 3-5 years we'll be back to direct entry Captains at many Regionals. Get in, get your pic & get out. If your a 4-5 year FO now and looking at another 3-4 years to upgrade you'd be foolish NOT to consider looking for an upgrade elsewhere. I was hired at 9E with 472 hours, I left thee for a direct entry Captain job at 1700 hours and hired at DAL with 2600 hours. MANY of my classmates at 9E who dissed me for my strategic career planning are STILL STUCK THERE!