Idea to End the Whipsaw
#1
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From: Delta Gear Slinger
After yesterday's devastating PSA announcement, I was thinking about how we can end this ridiculous whipsaw game. Here is what I came up with:
Each regional MEC needs to negotiate identical scope language in their respective CBA's. It should read something like this:
"All aircraft on property on date of signing shall not be operated by another United States flagged carrier. This includes transfers, lease returns, sales, and subleases.
Should any company aircraft enter service with any other US flagged carrier, 10 pilots per airframe shall be automatically transferred to the new operator and shall maintain his/her date of hire for all purposes including pay, longevity, bidding, vacation and sick accrual, and non revenue pass travel. These pilots shall be awarded a transfer by seniority bid.
This section shall remain intact through any and all force majeure events including bankruptcy, acts of God, fleet grounding, and cessation of company operations.
Example: NXXXAE is returned to the lessor and leased by PSA. The company shall open a bid to transfer 10 pilots to PSA, and those 10 pilots shall enter training at PSA at the next available class date and will maintain their original hire date for all purposes."
The scope section would then include all tail numbers operated by each carrier at date of signing.
Ideally, we would get all regionals under a single regional airline union but it could be done under existing conditions as long as the scope languages are identical.
Each regional MEC needs to negotiate identical scope language in their respective CBA's. It should read something like this:
"All aircraft on property on date of signing shall not be operated by another United States flagged carrier. This includes transfers, lease returns, sales, and subleases.
Should any company aircraft enter service with any other US flagged carrier, 10 pilots per airframe shall be automatically transferred to the new operator and shall maintain his/her date of hire for all purposes including pay, longevity, bidding, vacation and sick accrual, and non revenue pass travel. These pilots shall be awarded a transfer by seniority bid.
This section shall remain intact through any and all force majeure events including bankruptcy, acts of God, fleet grounding, and cessation of company operations.
Example: NXXXAE is returned to the lessor and leased by PSA. The company shall open a bid to transfer 10 pilots to PSA, and those 10 pilots shall enter training at PSA at the next available class date and will maintain their original hire date for all purposes."
The scope section would then include all tail numbers operated by each carrier at date of signing.
Ideally, we would get all regionals under a single regional airline union but it could be done under existing conditions as long as the scope languages are identical.
#2
What happens if they get aircraft after date of signing?
Why would a company agree to this knowing if they get used airplanes from another company they have to take pilots at a higher payscale when they could hire off the street.
What do you expect to give up to get protection like this?
Why would a company agree to this knowing if they get used airplanes from another company they have to take pilots at a higher payscale when they could hire off the street.
What do you expect to give up to get protection like this?
#3
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From: Delta Gear Slinger
What happens if they get aircraft after date of signing?
Why would a company agree to this knowing if they get used airplanes from another company they have to take pilots at a higher payscale when they could hire off the street.
What do you expect to give up to get protection like this?
Why would a company agree to this knowing if they get used airplanes from another company they have to take pilots at a higher payscale when they could hire off the street.
What do you expect to give up to get protection like this?
2) That's the whole point. It would prevent a company from screwing another pilot group by transferring used planes around. Many of pilots have been screwed by these tactics. It wouldn't matter if every single carrier had this language.
3) I would personally be willing to give up a lot for this. Its the ultimate career protection.
Don't take the language I wrote to be exactly what would show up in a contract. Obviously it would have to be tweaked and made better by the negotiating committees and lawyers. Its just a general idea.
#4
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From: Another RJ FO
Another easy way to end the whipsaw would be to let airlines operate like every other industry in the world where experience determines your pay scale and not years at a company. People are bottom feeder airlines are stuck there because they can't go back to being a $22/hour FO. If people could leave a company they were dissatisfied with those companies would fail.
#6
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From: Delta Gear Slinger
We need less talking and more action. I have absolutely no experience with serving on a union so I have no idea where to begin, but something like this needs to happen.
#7
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From: Delta Gear Slinger
Another easy way to end the whipsaw would be to let airlines operate like every other industry in the world where experience determines your pay scale and not years at a company. People are bottom feeder airlines are stuck there because they can't go back to being a $22/hour FO. If people could leave a company they were dissatisfied with those companies would fail.
#9
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What needs to happen is for Legacy MECs demand that all flying be done by mainline pilots. It would stop the whipsaw, they wouldn't have to spend future "negotiating capital" on scope and ALPA would collect more dues.
It is insane for for Legacy unions to just stand on the sidelines while their company is printing money all the while trying to get blood from their regional turnips. This wouldn't be happening if we were a real union.
It is insane for for Legacy unions to just stand on the sidelines while their company is printing money all the while trying to get blood from their regional turnips. This wouldn't be happening if we were a real union.
#10
After yesterday's devastating PSA announcement, I was thinking about how we can end this ridiculous whipsaw game. Here is what I came up with:
Each regional MEC needs to negotiate identical scope language in their respective CBA's. It should read something like this:
"All aircraft on property on date of signing shall not be operated by another United States flagged carrier. This includes transfers, lease returns, sales, and subleases.
Should any company aircraft enter service with any other US flagged carrier, 10 pilots per airframe shall be automatically transferred to the new operator and shall maintain his/her date of hire for all purposes including pay, longevity, bidding, vacation and sick accrual, and non revenue pass travel. These pilots shall be awarded a transfer by seniority bid.
This section shall remain intact through any and all force majeure events including bankruptcy, acts of God, fleet grounding, and cessation of company operations.
Example: NXXXAE is returned to the lessor and leased by PSA. The company shall open a bid to transfer 10 pilots to PSA, and those 10 pilots shall enter training at PSA at the next available class date and will maintain their original hire date for all purposes."
The scope section would then include all tail numbers operated by each carrier at date of signing.
Ideally, we would get all regionals under a single regional airline union but it could be done under existing conditions as long as the scope languages are identical.
Each regional MEC needs to negotiate identical scope language in their respective CBA's. It should read something like this:
"All aircraft on property on date of signing shall not be operated by another United States flagged carrier. This includes transfers, lease returns, sales, and subleases.
Should any company aircraft enter service with any other US flagged carrier, 10 pilots per airframe shall be automatically transferred to the new operator and shall maintain his/her date of hire for all purposes including pay, longevity, bidding, vacation and sick accrual, and non revenue pass travel. These pilots shall be awarded a transfer by seniority bid.
This section shall remain intact through any and all force majeure events including bankruptcy, acts of God, fleet grounding, and cessation of company operations.
Example: NXXXAE is returned to the lessor and leased by PSA. The company shall open a bid to transfer 10 pilots to PSA, and those 10 pilots shall enter training at PSA at the next available class date and will maintain their original hire date for all purposes."
The scope section would then include all tail numbers operated by each carrier at date of signing.
Ideally, we would get all regionals under a single regional airline union but it could be done under existing conditions as long as the scope languages are identical.
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