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KMGM accident 12/31

Old 01-01-2023, 03:36 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I don't know that there is one.

I was suggesting that the CA signal the marshaller when all engines are off.. only then would the marshaller allow the other rampers to approach the aircraft. CA could signal for ground power prior to that to indicate that they should proceed with that before all engines off.

I bet they come up with something like that after this deal though.
What they really need to do is train their ramp crews on how dangerous a jet engine is, even when on idle. The 175 engines burn 500lbs/hr each on idle, it takes a lot of air to keep it cool and running. I don't think rampers really appreciate them enough, based on how often they jump in front of them when still running.

This is a top down issue. Lack of training, investment and oversight of rampers, and the culture of fear where a one minute delay can get you terminated. But I can guarantee management will find ways to avoid any responsibility, and they'll fire a few front line people to show they have done something about it. Yet nothing gets fixed.
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Old 01-01-2023, 03:40 PM
  #42  
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Sure a lot of armchair quarterbacks in here.....making a lot of assumptions with zero details on how this actually happened. Show this poor ramper some dignity and shut this thread down.
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Old 01-01-2023, 04:03 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by LizzyBorden View Post
Sure a lot of armchair quarterbacks in here.....making a lot of assumptions with zero details on how this actually happened. Show this poor ramper some dignity and shut this thread down.
I see it more as people discussing a tragic accident trying to see how it happened to help prevent it from happening again by identifying pitfalls in how we do things and improving processes and procedures and such.
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Old 01-01-2023, 04:11 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by I was inverted View Post
I see it more as people discussing a tragic accident trying to see how it happened to help prevent it from happening again by identifying pitfalls in how we do things and improving processes and procedures and such.
Sounds like you need to go back and re-read some things.
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Old 01-01-2023, 04:35 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I don't know that there is one.

I was suggesting that the CA signal the marshaller when all engines are off.. only then would the marshaller allow the other rampers to approach the aircraft. CA could signal for ground power prior to that to indicate that they should proceed with that before all engines off.

I bet they come up with something like that after this deal though.
WN already does this entire process
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Old 01-01-2023, 04:52 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by CrandallCrawler View Post
WN already does this entire process
Don't they also train their rampers and pay them a livable wage?
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Old 01-01-2023, 06:26 PM
  #47  
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Serious questions about turbofans.... once fuel is cutoff, how soon is it safe to be in front of it? Obviously it is still spinning for a couple of minutes after cutoff and N1 decreases almost instantly, but at what point is there no longer a danger of getting sucked in after fuel cutoff?
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Old 01-01-2023, 06:46 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
Serious questions about turbofans.... once fuel is cutoff, how soon is it safe to be in front of it? Obviously it is still spinning for a couple of minutes after cutoff and N1 decreases almost instantly, but at what point is there no longer a danger of getting sucked in after fuel cutoff?
Right after cutoff you’ll be fine, just don’t walk in front of it pre cutoff for obvious reasons
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Old 01-01-2023, 08:04 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
These ramp incidents (opening doors and approaching the plane inappropriately) happened all the time at Envoy (like around monthly). Multiple times I had someone open the cargo door with #2 still running (short taxi so not enough cooling time). The standard op on the 175 with APU inop is shut down #2 when you can, and then shut down #1 when GPU is plugged in. There is never any reason for a ramper to approach engine #1 even with APU inop.
The only reason I can think of was that ops knew plane had inop APU so they wanted to plug in PCA as well as the GPU. That connection is under the plane and you pull it right in front of #1. This is speculation and I don't know for sure.

Some ambulance chaser lawyer is gonna get a huge payday soon, this is a systematic issue with rampers and their training and culture of fear and rush, and I bet AA will settle for 8 figures. The ramp is a dangerous place, but their training is almost non-existent.
Heard of a recent Huffer hose ingestion/partial ingestion....I heard the aircraft was dispatched and the flight deck was not informed.

Training is not bad....it's the lack of oversight ....people just watching their phones and hitting the enter button and guessing on the questions which are regularly dumbed down so people can pass. But when you pay people 10.00 /hr, sups at 13.50...you kinda get what ya pay for
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Old 01-01-2023, 08:06 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
Serious questions about turbofans.... once fuel is cutoff, how soon is it safe to be in front of it? Obviously it is still spinning for a couple of minutes after cutoff and N1 decreases almost instantly, but at what point is there no longer a danger of getting sucked in after fuel cutoff?
Pretty much instantly. The pressure ratio drops to zero almost immediately, that's the woosh-sound you hear when a turbofan engine is shut down.
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