ABC NEWS with Diane Sawyer on LGA Crashpad
02-10-2011, 01:59 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: PT Inbound
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by Funky Twins
That's why you see those rj pilots sleepiing on crewroom sofas and they are doing that not because they lack in personal responsibility.
Again, nobody put a gun to their heads and siad, "WORK FOR XXX AIRLINES AND LIVE OUT OF BASE, THAT WAY YOU HAVE TO COMMUTE AND SLEEP IN THE CREW ROOM, MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!"
Everything is a choice.
02-10-2011, 02:06 PM
#42
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Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: PT Inbound
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by Funky Twins
I don't know what you folks from the perfect world have been sniffing, but for us in the imperfect world, we have bills to pay and families to support and dogs and cats to feed.
I find the logic behind this type of advocacy to be interesting. You are saying that our free society is "imperfect" (when compared to the "perfect" world of freedom that I describe). As a solution for this, we need to make our world EVEN MORE imperfect by taking away more freedoms. As a reasonable person can infer, this will only lead to people complaining that our world is even more imperfect, thus leading to more freedoms being taken away and the slippery slope will continue until we are in a world as described by Carl Marx / Stalin. If this is what you picture as being ideal for this country, then maybe you should consider a different society.
The nice thing about a 100% free society (to use your "perfect world" analogy) is that the only things you have to do (and are ultimately responsible for) are what you choose to do. That, is the perfect world I live in. A world of Free-Will!
Last edited by Fly Boy Knight; 02-10-2011 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Adding content
02-10-2011, 02:55 PM
#43
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Originally Posted by pagey
How much did you make your first year with an airline? How would completing rest rules increase pilot pay?
What does my pay have to do with crash pads? I've never been at a crash pad... ever. I wouldn't, either. I don't prefer to live that way, and airline flying is not worth just existing to me.
My pay was $19.25/hr, multiplied by however many hours I credited. I commuted.
The pay isn't specifically the issue for crash pads. Everybody knows the pay going in, just like I did. If the situation for me was live in a crash pad or find a new job, I'd find a new job.
Rest rules are certainly something the government can, and must do. I don't follow your thought how that is connected to pay in any way.
The pay just might go up if some people refused the job. No matter how much pilots complain, they'll keep lining up for low pay and crash pads.
02-10-2011, 03:05 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Sleeping
Posts: 1,036
-Every applicant for any airline asks the question: Are you willing to relocate??
-When you start with an airline, regional or major, you know how much your are making.
-When you apply with an airline, you know what bases they have..
The choice to commute/having a crashpad is the pilots RESPONSIBILITY. Not the airlines, not the government.
I don't have any sympathy for somebody who has to support a family/kids/wife and commutes, and then complains about there situation. That is there personal choice to live out of base. If somebody had the great idea to have a huge mortgage, wife, kids, loans, and work for a crappy paying regional, and then decides to commute, well that is just a stupid life decision. The government or airlines should not have to pay for one's poor life decisions.
I agree with Fly Boy knight
-When you start with an airline, regional or major, you know how much your are making.
-When you apply with an airline, you know what bases they have..
The choice to commute/having a crashpad is the pilots RESPONSIBILITY. Not the airlines, not the government.
I don't have any sympathy for somebody who has to support a family/kids/wife and commutes, and then complains about there situation. That is there personal choice to live out of base. If somebody had the great idea to have a huge mortgage, wife, kids, loans, and work for a crappy paying regional, and then decides to commute, well that is just a stupid life decision. The government or airlines should not have to pay for one's poor life decisions.
I agree with Fly Boy knight
02-10-2011, 03:27 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Fero's
Posts: 472
Originally Posted by Fly Boy Knight
John Galt once said, "Every man builds his world in his own image. He has the power to choose, but no power to escape the necessity of choice. If he abdicates his power, he abdicates the status of man, and the grinding chaos of the irrational is what he achieves as his sphere of existence – by his own choice."
02-10-2011, 04:03 PM
#46
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: CFI
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by Funky Twins
Call me a socialist or even a commie, but maybe the government should chip in to solve this problem. The bottom line is that none of the regional first officers can afford reasonable and legal (which meets all the fire codes and building codes as ABC NEWS pointed out) accomodations in many of these places while supporting a spouse and a couple of kids, so we are being forced in to situations like these. This problem is real, it is here, and the government should do something about it now.
How about this... you pay people what they need to be safe, and what they're worth. If you can't do that, and provide a product that can make money, then you fail. You have to let the system work, government as gotten completely out of control and the LAST thing I want to see my tax dollars doing is subsidising yet another broken system. It's why we're in this mess. Capitalism works, let it.
That said, as long as there are chumps willing to work for those wages, the problem won't go away. Make all the excuses in the world about how and why, not a single pilot at any regional ever had a gun to their head and was forced into servitude. If you willingly take that job for that pay, you have no leg to stand on. If you have a wife and kid, and opt to take a $20K/year job, THAT WAS YOUR CHOICE. The lack of personal respobsibility and entitlement makes my eyes bleed.
02-10-2011, 04:19 PM
#47
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
What does my pay have to do with crash pads? I've never been at a crash pad... ever. I wouldn't, either. I don't prefer to live that way, and airline flying is not worth just existing to me.
If the situation for me was live in a crash pad or find a new job, I'd find a new job.
If the situation for me was live in a crash pad or find a new job, I'd find a new job.
Not trying to pick on you, but I am curious, how are the rest rules and fatigue policies at Arik? Does the company provide housing when you commute in from the US?
For those without families and have "NO SYMPATHY" for us commuters... JUST SHUT UP, all of us have our reasons to commute to our AWESOME PAY at the regionals. I personally commute to FAT from MCO, it sucks but I am fine with it, I tried the living in base thing for 2 years but it was a family choice and I was more willing to commute than have my wife be unhappy in FAT.
For me I would be happy if I could use the company (lodgeX) to buy a hotel room in base before a trip at the Airline Company RATE, (NOT THE LEISURE RATE) and just have it payroll deducted or pay it myself at the hotel. Or what would be nice would be the airline pay for a certain number of nights since they dont have to pay for a parking pass for that employee or at times a SIDA badge. Plus each base SHOULD have a sleep, dark room, for those awesome 3 plus hr sits (have had 5 hours once).
02-10-2011, 04:29 PM
#48
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Fero's
Posts: 472
Hopper,
It's not about your choice to commute. It is about some wanting the government to pay for it.
I can only speak for myself but, I will not "JUST SHUT UP" when people are asking for the taxpayers to subsidize their life choices.
It's not about your choice to commute. It is about some wanting the government to pay for it.
I can only speak for myself but, I will not "JUST SHUT UP" when people are asking for the taxpayers to subsidize their life choices.
02-10-2011, 04:31 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by f16jetmech
Amen sir. I believe that down to my bones. Capitilism does work! It may suk initially, but it will take it's course eventually. Chrysler survived the great depression but not this recent recession. Why because there was less economic movement or less sales? Hell no! It's cause there are too many unions and awful management. I think pilot unions are silly as well. If you run the company right, people will work for you. If you don't, people will leave. Free market econemy!
02-10-2011, 04:35 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by chuckyt1
Hopper,
It's not about your choice to commute. It is about some wanting the government to pay for it.
I can only speak for myself but, I will not "JUST SHUT UP" when people are asking for the taxpayers to subsidize their life choices.
It's not about your choice to commute. It is about some wanting the government to pay for it.
I can only speak for myself but, I will not "JUST SHUT UP" when people are asking for the taxpayers to subsidize their life choices.
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