Frontier Negotiations Discussion - Page 402 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#4011

dracir1 , 12-06-2018 07:58 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterRooster

The ULCC class exists because there is consumer demand for it. it has nothing to do with the pilots, but the customer. If F9 shuts down another one would pop up because the consumer wants a $45 ticket. Its a class that is not going to go away.

I have not said the pay is acceptable once actually. I have agreed with you that they contract is substandard. Where we don't agree is what numbers we should be looking at. For me it is a minimum of the NK contract. All of it.

Like I said, we aren't far off from the same view point here.

The class of customer has ALWAYS existed - even when SW prices started to climb. And as your put it, if F9 ceases to exist or is forced to charge more due to labor costs (which that in of itself is a whole different discussion) another ULCC will spring up in its place.

That’s a GREAT idea. Why don’t we vote this down, fight for higher pay, F9 sells us then starts their next ULCC project with Skywest or Trans States or whomever. And that ULCC can do it’s job over the next 10-15 years of fighting for its higher wages. Then Indigo sells them, buys another regional, and the cycle continues.

We win because of the obvious. Regional pilot groups win by upgrading to a ULCC (Legacy B scale) and Airbus type ratings. The costumer wins with exanding low cost markets and by keeping costs low on higher capacity aircraft than the typical regional. Indigo wins by undercutting all the Legacies by taking their cheap domestic lift AND makes a ton by paying cheaper labor.

So vote no and start the process. Our time at the B scale is complete.

#4012

emersonbiguns , 12-06-2018 08:16 AM

P/T Gear Slinger

Anybody found the "special page" with the TA materials that was promised for today?

#4013

Yabadaba , 12-06-2018 08:32 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by emersonbiguns

Anybody found the "special page" with the TA materials that was promised for today?

Just checked too and couldn’t find anything. Doubt it will be hard to find when it comes up.

#4014

dracir1 , 12-06-2018 08:36 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by dracir1

So vote no. We either need higher wages, better scheduling options, profit sharing or a shorter contract duration. Our time at the B scale is complete.

New lanyards...

#4015

Prettywhacked1 , 12-06-2018 09:29 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Where are you guys seeing the TA online?

#4016

Mugatu , 12-06-2018 09:29 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddChavez

Do some research... Most of that 5.7 million was stock option awards that he never received.

Stock options he never received? Ha!

Unless a person is fired with cause, when does that ever happen?

#4017

wt93205 , 12-06-2018 10:40 AM

Hold my beer, watch this.

They don't want us to see it first. They don't want us to come at them with ammo as to why they sold us out. Time to vote no. Time for a new MEC.

#4018

CantStayAway , 12-06-2018 10:58 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by wt93205

They don't want us to see it first. They don't want us to come at them with ammo as to why they sold us out. Time to vote no. Time for a new MEC.

I thought the same thing. If you have nothing to hide or be ashamed of then put it out there.

#4019

symbian simian , 12-06-2018 10:58 AM

Line holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by dracir1

This is a very scary thought process. It’s like a weed that needs to be plucked...

So, I guess if there’s a restaurant or dry cleaners or accounting firm or doctors office that caters to a “different” type of client, the workers should accept less pay despite the fact that the owners earn on par with what other owners who don’t cater to the same client? Is there a class of worker in EVERY industry that should be content with earning much less even through the owners and management don’t?

Where do people with this mentality come from? What is your background? Where did you grow up? What did your parents tell you when you were 12 - become an airline pilot but understand that if you get with a good airline but a ULCC owner buys it, you should settle for their below industry average pay?

Did canceling a few vacations do this to you?

Restaurant not a good example: I know a few guys that have a couple of franchise "premium" fast food restaurants. They pay minimum wage to their workers and live in million dollar homes. Pretty sure the difference in pay between a Ruth Chris server and his boss is smaller... Not that I agree with it, I was very pi##ed of when Bob F said we were second tier pilots while he was making more money than most airline CEOs.

#4020

symbian simian , 12-06-2018 11:01 AM

Line holder

Quote:

Originally Posted by dracir1

That’s the fallacy of the argument - that we should expect Delta rates. Delta is a fine airline, but their customers aren’t different than Alaska. Yet Delta makes more. I get that not every company pays the same - but MOST if not ALL companies (doctor offices, accounting firms, etc) are much closer in pay to each other than us. We are still well below average. More than 4-5% less. That’s significant. Over the course of years, that greater difference equates to Tens of Thousands of dollars.

I’m not asking for Delalta rates. I don’t think anyone is. But we should’ve started negotiations at those rates so that we meet in the middle (somewhere around industry average).

How do we not know how NEGOTIATIONS work in 2018? We are still well below industry average much less Delta...

FWIW, according to the arbi-tra(i)tor you are wrong: Alaska pilots deserve less pay then DL pilots because they lack the size and international route structure to be up there with the "real" companies.