The Midwest pilots will not forget about you. Good luck!

Seriously MD? Are you ever gonna ever change your tune? I honestly haven't flown with or talked with one other RAH pilot who thinks that there should be a staple below us as you basically say above. It's getting really old...stop the labeling crap and try to be productive with the talks. It's going to arbitration and it'll lie where it lies.

I don't think anyone is going to (or should) get stapled. Didn't you know stapling is illegal.

I didn't get the tone of a staple, but one that RAH pilots have expressed, which is something along the lines of entitlement because they are the acquiring party. When SWA offered a staple for seniority, pay protection, base and seat protection for the period of the Airbus drawdown, and longevity credit, SWAPA was told they were crazy and negotiations ceased. RAH pilots had statements that Frontier pilots deserved better and would be backed by the RAH pilots to preserve what they had earned. Since the deal has gone through, the RAH pilots have slowly changed their tune to one that they feel they deserve a "slice of the pie" since they bought a BK airline.

Now with regards to mediation...I wonder how long this will drag out. I can't see a 10 minute meeting with the mediator throwing their hands in the air and say "Go to arbitration!". The mediator is there to make things work. If all the parties know in advance that they prefer arbitration, then agree to it now instead of bogging down the inevitable. If a party prefers mediation, then it means they usually have something to gain over arbitration.

So...although there is a lot of emotion tied to all this, I've seen a lot of good facts. Every side thinks they have a better case. Each pilot group has their own experiences and it would be foolish for one group to assume they know the situation and past of the others. If this is all doomed to arbitration, then just make it happen so things can move forward.

False sense of entitlement is everywhere in this integration. Some RAH guys think they should be above all midwest/frontier. Most frontier/midwest think they should be above all RAH. There is going to be a middle ground in the end. The bottom line is a regional airline bought two failing major airlines. Career expectations support both sides in the integration depending on your point of view. Everyone needs to get it in their heads that this is going to be one airline, whether you like it or not. There is no going back now.

It wasn't sent to arbritration immediately because thats what the unions all agreed too. We all know that it is a foregone conclusion, but all parties will see the process through. In the end, I fully expect to see an SLI based mostly on relative seniority with maybe a fence. Either way, the pilots arguing on this board have zero say in how this will go.

So they should just shut up? Or what's your point?

At least someone will remember us...

This deal is gonna be an America West/US Air situation all over again. Fighting and lawsuits will continue for years and years.

I honestly think Midwest and Frontier guys should be mixed by relative seniority and then place the captains at the top of the Captain list and the FOs at the top of the FO list. Put the Midwest guys in the E190s and lock all Frontier and Midwest guys into their aircraft for 5 years.

1 RAH Pilot's opinion:

I don't believe a staple is fair/good for anyone...no matter who is on top or who is on bottom. All parties are bringing something to the table, some are bringing more than other and I think that that fact should be remembered when it is all over. I wholeheartedly expect to have F9/YX/Lynx guys ahead of me and F9/YX/Lynx guys behind me. What I cannot accept is the idea that I should be stapled to the bottom as a lot of YX'ers seem to think. I came to work at a viable airline with a good business model that made money every quarter in recent memory (prior to the acquisitons). RAH is not my first airline, but I came here because I saw stability. Now a lot of guys think that because I chose to work for RAH I should be the first one to be furloughed if things start to turn south. On that I call bull. I am a senior FO who gets the days off he wants. At the moment I am about 1250 out of 2200 (57%) at RAH...I would find it reasonable to expect that when it is all said and done I am somewhere around 50-65% on the new list.

But then again, this is just one RAH pilots opinion...and we all know what that counts for...something between dittatly and squat.

CHQ Pilot;748249]I didn't get the tone of a staple, but one that RAH pilots have expressed, which is something along the lines of entitlement because they are the acquiring party. When SWA offered a staple for seniority, pay protection, base and seat protection for the period of the Airbus drawdown, and longevity credit, SWAPA was told they were crazy and negotiations ceased. RAH pilots had statements that Frontier pilots deserved better and would be backed by the RAH pilots to preserve what they had earned. Since the deal has gone through, the RAH pilots have slowly changed their tune to one that they feel they deserve a "slice of the pie" since they bought a BK airline.


I can't help feeling bad for the F9 guys - especially the junior ones. I think the lack of vision or greed of the very senior FAPA negotiation members led FAPA to make one of the biggest blunders ever for their membership. I think FAPA's mistake of the SWA offer will be the end of their great name, culture, and their mainline salaries. In my humble opinion (albeit possibly incorrect), the F9 guys should genuinely be concerned, because they are about to become RJ guys - with RJ work rules, salaries, and culture.

I have heard the arguments from some that if F9 had gone with SWA there might have been furloughs, and that FAPA was concerned about F9 rampers, gate agents, and maintenance as well – that is why they drew such a line in the sand. I have a feeling RAH won't care a bit about F9 rampers, gate agents, and maintenance personnel - in fact didn't 250 F9 maintenance positions already get liquidated by BB? I think they were moved to MKE? As for possible furloughs, if F9 had gone with SWA I agree that might have been a very realistic concern. Although I am not totally convinced that after this (6 way?) SLI that there won't be furloughs as well. Only time will tell. No flames intended to all the brothers who are going through this mess.
-Aloha