I fully agree that we're talking past each other. You are correct that some of those involved with C2012 did not continue in their jobs in the ensuing administration. I too am correct in saying that not all of those (in particular the NC Chairman whom some on this board have vilified for his role) were removed.

As you say, they both happened. Let's move on.

Yea yeah, I know. Rant over as I said. Was venting.

I'm over it. But in seriousness, instead of complaining, how about a list of great features DAL has which is better than AAL and UAL?

I love it here. Was just grumpy I lost an awesome trip. Which I think is nuts that provision is in the contract.

I'm working on notes for the contract survey.

Well, right back at you. Maybe you should go back and read some of what you have written in the past and see if you are just getting a taste of your own medicine here. My frustration is the continued hashing and rehashing of the same tired talking points, all completely invented. I guess your assertion that the reasoning behind the deal was all just a fairy tale meant to deliberately mislead the pilots is just nice guy talk? Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

The 717's were a good deal and so were the A-319's that they were looking at. The 717's were all or nothing so they had to find a way to unlock the financing and flying commitments on the 50 seaters in order to take the whole lot. If they couldn't get that, they would just take many fewer A-319's, keep a number of the 50 seaters, and let the 717's go elsewhere.

If the RJ-76's were not the key to unlocking the financing and flying commitments for the 50 seaters, then you must have some reason why all those third parties deliberately let Delta out of their contracts. Do you have an answer to that?

It shouldn't be too much to ask, that when you make definitive statements like "the 717's were coming anyway" that you have some logical explanation to back it up. You accuse me of lying about those aircraft and then get all touchy feely when it comes back at you.

Curious. Out of all the other US passenger carrying airlines: legacy, major, national, regional, LCC.....all of them....which one's contract would you rather have? Also, which regional did you come from that the only thing worse is the pay?

I say give him some slack, he's right about the * rotations, but give him some time to realize some of the less obvious bennies of the PWA. I had the same impression when I first arrived, but as time went on the light bulb went on in regards to the many areas that are vastly superior to regional contracts (as it should be!).

Every airline has to have some provisions for monthly changeovers. The reason you probably got the trip in the first place was senior guys avoid them. You are pay protected for the flying this month and can bid over those days next month.

Random thoughts, as putting things on public boards usually hurts negotiating...

Automatic number of "x" days off after a rotation, like spirits.

The ability to just cut a part a rotation which spills over into another month is nuts still. At least without the consent of the line holder. (Before bidding even opens and a conflict exists!)

Out of base swapping of trips. I already got hammered on that, but I still support it.

Higher monthly guarantee.

The sick bank, use or lose is crazy weird.

Vacation. I don't have it in front of me, but doesn't united max out at 12 years, verus dal at 22yrs (35 days of vac)...and a max of 42 days at UAL.

There are others, and I have constructive thoughts for the survey.

Again, I know it sounded like whining, which I take back... I was guily like others, but I guess, let's get back on the positive. Discuss positive aspects of the PWA, and areas to improve. That was a short list I came up with in a couple movements.

Other areas I would like to improve, less code sharing and JV. But everyone wants that. And of course take back as much scope as possible. I started long ago and believed in scope. Heck anything over 30 seats should be at mainline. I know it might never happen, but it's worth a shot to try to get there.

My belief is, the first mainline to take back most flying in house will be the premiere airline of the future. With the hiring and future changes in the US aviation market place... This could be golden. While some carriers struggle with schedules and cxl'd flights at regionals, the main line with "regional" flying back in house wins.

How do we get there.... It will be interesting. I dealt with whipsawing for well over a decade. So it's the same. Delta is whipsawed against regionals and the joint ventures....

The next contract, and the next decade may shape the next 30 years in the US airline industry. I hope we knock one out of the park.

Okay, back to my happy place.... A nice Harley ride.

Positive thoughts

I know, it was a hard learning lesson. It was a awesome trip btw. 4 day, 25 hours, commutable on both ends, and layovers in places I needed to be in. Like I posted, I'm over it. I learned another part of the contract today

dont get high hopes, alpo has a way of letting you down more often than not

United does get 42 days of vacation however not until 26 years of service. Did you look at their pay rates years 1 to 3 compared with Delta. If they dropped your entire trip how many pay protected hours are you getting?