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-   -   Skywest v2.0 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/skywest/93589-skywest-v2-0-a.html)

WaterRooster 05-06-2016 08:14 PM


Originally Posted by disillusioned (Post 2124160)
But we do have a reserve re-write just around the corner.

Hasn't that been said for years now? Or did I miss a sarcasm tag somewhere....

word302 05-06-2016 08:28 PM


Originally Posted by disillusioned (Post 2124160)
So you are saying they are honoring seniority now with E175 transitions now? Maybe it goes down more but I still think that once they finalize the Delta benefits and people know where those 175's are going that you will see upgrades and transitions go more senior.



I just think it is a disservice to those that are looking for an honest outlook on upgrade times to give the upgrade time of 32 months when that is not realistic of what they can expect. I don't see 15 FO's between the two, I see 2398 and 2399 at the hiring dates I mentioned above. It appears that they are done for now. I think that upgrades aren't as important for those that want to move on, but more and more senior folks are taking the upgrade once they know they won't be sitting reserve. And to anyone looking to upgrade or come here, our reserve rules are the worst in the industry. But we do have a reserve re-write just around the corner.

Not really sure how it's a disservice considering the upgrade gets shorter every month. Obviously at some point it will hit the bottom of the curve and creep back up, but trying to guesstimate that is futile. Right now someone who was hired 2 years and 10 months ago upgraded in 2 years and 10 months.

disillusioned 05-06-2016 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by WaterRooster (Post 2124175)
Hasn't that been said for years now? Or did I miss a sarcasm tag somewhere....

Yeah sarcasm. Was told 5 years ago the company had agreed to work on it and it was even part of a pay package we voted in. But then KB went bye bye and MT told SAPA that he didn't need to honor promises that KB made. That is part of the dedication to fairness in all that SkyWest does and respect for employees that they brag about on the anti-union page on SWOL.


Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2124180)
Not really sure how it's a disservice considering the upgrade gets shorter every month. Obviously at some point it will hit the bottom of the curve and creep back up, but trying to guesstimate that is futile. Right now someone who was hired 2 years and 10 months ago upgraded in 2 years and 10 months.

Well since SkyWest was at 2 year upgrades when I got hired, then it must have stayed the same right? I guess we can say that for this month, SW is at 34 month upgrades. We will see what next month brings.

rcfd13 05-06-2016 08:57 PM


Originally Posted by Is offline (Post 2124039)
Ya lets see how long he sits reserve. Everyone else is just waiting on enough of those guys to upgrade so they can hold a line.

There aren't very many reserves in MSP and ORD.. If the 3 year pilots upgrading stay in MSP or ORD they probably won't sit reserve for very long..

rcfd13 05-06-2016 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by disillusioned (Post 2124010)
I'd say it would be better to give a more realistic view. Yes the most junior awarded CA was hired on 7/13, so 2 years and 10 months ago. But the next junior on the list was hired on 12/12 which would still be over 3 years. And the most senior FO to upgrade is 16 years.

If you want to take the absolute lowest number and make it the new standard, be my guest. But I would caution anyone to think that the new upgrade here is 2 years and 10 months. With about 500 FO's above the most jr CA, taking the very first upgrade class usually leads to a crash course in CS reserve abuse 101. ymmv

There are hardly any reserves in the junior bases. If someone wants a west coast base they're going to sit reserve forever but the captains who take 3 year upgrades to MSP and ORD aren't sitting reserve for very long at all. There are only 15 reserve lines in MSP and ORD.

The people delaying upgrade who will upgrade senior to those 3 year pilots are probably delaying upgrade because they want a specific base, and that specific base probably isn't MSP or ORD.

There was also a 7 month gap in hiring in 2012-2013 which this bid award caught up to. If they keep upgrading 40 per month 3 years probably is pretty much the new standard. The 3 year upgrades aren't that many numbers junior to the 4 year upgrades that have been going on for over a year.

M20EPilot 05-06-2016 09:07 PM

Skywest did not hire in the first half of 2013. There was a big gap, and then only classes of 20 a month later summer/early fall that here, into the Brasilia (may the Bro rest in peace). So for the time being, its not at all surprising to see the "Upgrade time" dropping below 3 years.

This is a good lesson in the industry: "Upgrade time" for a new hire is useless, stale data. Its like a day old donut, a day old METAR. When SkyWest hired me it was a "7 year upgrade"; the lost decade was in effect. My math says about a 2 and 3/4 year upgrade for my employee number.

What will it be for someone considering the job today? God only knows. They have been cranking an awful lot of people through there the last couple of years. Maybe it will go down a bit more, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if upgrade time began to climb again as the most Jr CA number starts to mix in with the multitudes of folks as the wheels really started turning in 2014/2015.

word302 05-06-2016 09:08 PM


Originally Posted by disillusioned (Post 2124185)
Yeah sarcasm. Was told 5 years ago the company had agreed to work on it and it was even part of a pay package we voted in. But then KB went bye bye and MT told SAPA that he didn't need to honor promises that KB made. That is part of the dedication to fairness in all that SkyWest does and respect for employees that they brag about on the anti-union page on SWOL.



Well since SkyWest was at 2 year upgrades when I got hired, then it must have stayed the same right? I guess we can say that for this month, SW is at 34 month upgrades. We will see what next month brings.

Did you read my post before responding? Yes, upgrades are fluid. Yes, it is a terrible idea to base your decision to go somewhere based on the current upgrade. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. Movement is good right now, but I guess we should be pessimistic about it.

rcfd13 05-06-2016 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by M20EPilot (Post 2124190)
Skywest did not hire in the first half of 2013. There was a big gap, and then only classes of 20 a month later summer/early fall that here, into the Brasilia (may the Bro rest in peace). So for the time being, its not at all surprising to see the "Upgrade time" dropping below 3 years.

This is a good lesson in the industry: "Upgrade time" for a new hire is useless, stale data. Its like a day old donut, a day old METAR. When SkyWest hired me it was a "7 year upgrade"; the lost decade was in effect. My math says about a 2 and 3/4 year upgrade for my employee number. What will it be for someone considering the job today? God only knows. They have been cranking an awful lot of people through there the last couple of years.

From 2014 on they've pretty much been steady at 50+ new hires per month. Everyone knew the upgrades would fall to 3 years because of that 7 month gap in hiring, then slow hiring for most of 2013. It seems somewhat unlikely that the upgrade will drop too far under 3 years because the class sizes were consistently so large from 2014 and on. As you said this industry is totally unpredictable to a new hire though so whatever happens will probably surprise me.

WesternSkies 05-06-2016 09:28 PM

I admit I was wrong on how fast we would hit 2013 hires.

nopantsILS 05-06-2016 10:06 PM

Wow, pretty crazy this is even before the 50+ 175 deliveries begin. I must admit I didn't believe it, but the upgrade will dip way down when these airplanes start getting delivered at up to 6 a month.


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