SlipKid

I haven't missed your point. It's a given that work rules are as or even more important than hourly rate.

What's ironic is that you keep missing my point.

RJSAviator76

You’re right. I generally do above average... because I choose to. I could choose to just fly my line and I’d be right in the ballpark with my legacy buds, though I’d work 2-3 days less a month than they do. The fundamental difference between them and me... they simply don’t have a choice to get above average. I do. You sampled a group of senior guys. Some value time off, others value a paycheck.

I recently had a captain in the jumpseat who AVERAGED over 200 TFP per month constantly bumping against 1000 in 365. He clearly only cared about making money. No, thank you! SlipKid on the other hand only wants to work 10 days a month or he’s calling in fatigued.

I worked under a legacy ALPA contract with sweet pay rates and fantastic retirement.
Our work rules however favored guys like yourself and SlipKid. We could brag about hourly rates with the best of them, but we were capped at 80 hours and had zero choice if we wanted to make more. The choice was made for us.

Would you prefer that? Not me.

Finally, how would you describe how much a first year guy on reserve will make here?

flensr

Like they were saying above, it depends on a LOT of things. If you're living in base there are tons of ways to fiddle with the schedule and make a lot extra. If you're commuting and just sitting in a hotel because you can't give away your reserve blocks but the company isn't using you, you'll make minimums plus giving a lot away paying for that hotel room or crashpad.

Someone sitting reserve in base who doesn't mind rolling the bones can pick up a lot and if they don't call, getting paid time at home instead of paying to sit in a hotel somewhere.

Plus, flying trips from open time above your original monthly total will get you 2nd year pay for the extra flying, however the details matter and you might end up with straight pay for extra flying depending on how you picked up the extra trip.

So... It depends.

I think $79k for the first year is considered the minimum. Take out taxes and health care and whatever else, add back in 401k direct contribution. Can't add profit sharing for up to 2 yrs, depending on date of hire.

SlipKid

Why does it need to be either or?

You're essentially using the "what are you willing to give up for that" (TSMITR) argument now.

If you want to compare us to legacy contracts, you have to include the fact that they have higher paying airplanes to bid into when they get senior.

You guys are not gonna be junior forever. The more senior you get here, the more you're gonna have to work to keep up with your peers of similar seniority at the legacies.

RJSAviator76

Actually Slip, that’s the problem with that line of thinking. You cannot IMPOSE what you want on the company. It just doesn’t work that way. If it did, we would have had the Platform for our contract. Instead, we NEGOTIATED what we have now.

A little difference there, wouldn’t you say?

BZC17

Rj don’t take this the wrong way. Do you go down to the chief pilots office to hang out before checking in? Do you have an application at the training center to help out with recurrent? Do you feel like you would want to be a check airman? Do you by chance own one of those over the top flag ties that an literally blind you? Would you or could you ever see yourself in a management job? No judgment, just trying to get a frame of reference.

SlipKid

LOL......

Really? We can't just IMPOSE our will? Damn, thanks for imparting that nugget of wisdom on me.

Seriously, 32 years in the business, 4 years of it as an ALPA rep, and you think I am not aware of exactly how this stuff works?

BTW, the latest TA2 proves my "line of thinking" perfectly.

It is an example of a non, zero sum contract, which is what you get when you actually NEGOTIATE instead of "negotiate", like SWApA used to do. They'd take whatever the company offers and sell it to the pilots like it's an amazing deal, and none of them were.

We gave up some stuff that we shouldn't have had to, but the overall value of what we got in return made up for them somewhat, for a change. That said, we are still working too cheap.

Think about what we could've gotten had the membership been 100% behind SWAPA, who, for the first time, was ready to actually charge the hill.

FWIW, the 2015 TA1 was right in line with every less than zero sum contract or SL we've voted for, with the exception of the '02 extension JW got us in spite of ourselves.

Thunder1

SlipKid,

Please re-read my post.....it clearly states in BOLD letters "Actual Days" worked -- by that I am referring to days I actually get into my nifty uniform and leave the house to fly an airplane. So, yes when i get 48 TFP for sitting reserve at home and then actually go fly another 102 TFP in 12 days. My math shows 150 TFP in 12 days of ACTUAL WORK, that's the caveat. So, yes: 150/12=12.5 TFP/Day

And yes, I know there are many legacy airline wide-body pilots that sit long-call reserve all month and maybe go fly one 3-4 day international trip and credit 80 hours. That is awesome and as soon as SWA buys wide bodies I might do the same thing and then I will be claiming to make 25 TFP per day of ACTUAL WORK!! LOL

SlipKid

I knew what you were implying, which is why I highlighted it.

Like most of the folks gilding the lily on here, your ACTUAL math is way off, since those 8 days you sat reserve without getting called were not days OFF, but ACTUAL WORK days.

If I have a 24 hour layover at home, is that a day OFF too?

Thunder1

SlipKid,
You and I have very different definitions of ACTUAL WORK.
Yes, reserve IS a day of work when it comes to pay, the contract, fighting for pay per day so we no longer sit for free like we used to. I will be right there in 2020 picketing beside you, like I did last time, fighting to get many improvement including reserve pay at 6.5 TFP per day.
However, this thread was talking about quality of life. When I live in domicile and sit reserve and not get used it is not a day of work when it comes to my quality of life -- hell, I've been out wake boarding/wake surfing on Lake Mead while on reserve -- hardly a day of actual work. Cheers!