SlipKid

Apparently.

If you're on the hook for a 2 hour show, sorry, you're at WORK....


That sounds like one of my first flying jobs. We were on call 24/7. If you didn't get used, that became your day "off", after the fact.

I also sat 5.5 out of 7 years on reserve at a previous company. 2.5 of them were when I lived 5 minutes from the airport. I used to do outside stuff too, but I couldn't get too comfortable or make any plans because the chances of getting called out was always hanging over my head. At that place, we didn't use reserves anywhere near like we do here. I averaged 6 days of flying a month out of 18 days of reserve.

I lost count of the number of times I made plans or dug into a project only to have the beeper go off and had to leave to go fly.

It wasn't horrible, but I wasn't OFF if I didn't get called either.

Reserve days are work days. Period.

RJSAviator76

Haven’t seen a chief in months, and that wasn’t even in my base... captain was chatting him up while I enjoyed my dinner. Hell, I hardly even go to the lounge, and if I do, it’s to empty out my box or ELITT. Not interested in special projects or hanging out in Dallas, nor am I interested in being a check airman as that means time in Dallas as well, nor am I interested in being a chief pilot as that means headaches and politics. Same goes for being in management.

I do have a flag tie that’s been worn exactly twice: 9/11 and Veterans Day with a SWAPA pin on it. I would have worn it on 4th of July, and Memorial Day.

Something else that you may have missed for your “frame of reference” - I voted NO mostly because of LTD/insurance and the company’s hypocrisy regarding the Golden Rule when it comes to an employee needing them the most, they throw them on their behinds. Other factors being no reason for B plan having not started at 15%, didn’t care for some other things and language such as changing fatigue policy regarding pay while on premium or sick leave accrual rate while on premium or sick leave usage while on premium converting to straight time... but those wouldn’t have necessarily been the deal breakers. LTD was and will be a deal breaker for me in the future.

RJSAviator76

Slip, it’s good that you keep bringing up SWApA and caution against electing self serving bozos giving away the store and selling it as a “gain”, but you cannot let that handicap you. You also can’t say stuff like we are lagging our peers without taking a look at the whole enchilada. Your main beef is no heavies and associated flying. It’s interesting listening to my legacy buds and their gripes... funny. I think we have it better especially living in base. But then again, different strokes for different folks...

I remain optimistic going forward for two reasons:

1) Available Pilot market - how will Southwest attract future talent? We don’t have fast upgrades or widebodies... why should someone come here vs. go to United or American? Deck parties?

2) Airline industry health - way better than it was over the last almost 2 decades.

Supply and demand curve should be on our side.

Squallrider

Curious what’s the deal with LTD? Someone mentioned it. Is it not available? Never needed it but rather have it and not need it as the saying goes

SlipKid

"We" handicapped ourselves by ratifying one concessionary contract and side letter after another. We could've voted no, but most of our folks don't even read the entire TAs and SLs before voting yes. TA2 was no exception.



My main "beef" has nothing to do with heavies or it's associated flying. At my age, I have no interest in doing that.

The point I've made, repeatedly, is that since we don't have higher paying aircraft (IE:Heavies), your pay vs. that of your peers with similar seniority at legacies will lag as you get more senior at SW, unless you work more days per month to make up for it.

My "beef" is with guys constantly saying that because they can work extra, we don't need higher pay rates. It's been going on as long as I've been here, so forgive me if your arguments sound sickeningly familiar to me.


I think I have it better, in many ways, than many of my peers of similar seniority, (who are typically wide body Capts at my seniority level) at the legacies too. That doesn't change the fact that I have to work more days than they do to equal their pay.

The fact that I can do it if I so choose in one of the many things I like about our contract.

ZapBrannigan

I’d add that our year 2 through year 5 FO pay lags the industry. After year five it parallels the pay curve at all of the other legacies, but for some reason it is markedly lower from 2-5.

Nobody at SWAPA has a good explanation as to why.




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Lewbronski

Let's say we wanted to try to impose our will on the company. What strategy would you recommend SWAPA pursue to try to accomplish that?

You would agree that we should at least try to have the best work rules AND the best pay rates AND the best retirement AND the best benefits AND the best reserve rules AND the best hotels, right?(especially given the fact that as SlipKid pointed out we have no wide-body equipment to enhance our career compensation past the 12-year point)

What would be the most effective means for SWAPA and this membership to accomplish all that we would like to accomplish ... to obtain everyone's dream contract?

SlipKid

SWAPA was on an amazing roll in 2015, and then just gave up after seeing the results of the membership survey that included questions about a potential strike vote.

Without understanding what they were actually gonna vote on (which is typical around here), the membership ran scared when the "S" word was mentioned. SWAPA did the right thing and settled right then and there, since a weak strike vote would've made things far worse.

I can tell you what doesn't work, and that's coming on public forums, incessantly crowing about how our work rules allow us to make as much and more than our legacy brethren if we're willing to work a "little" extra. It undermines the effort to get an industry standard hourly rate.

Ironically, some of the ones screaming it the loudest aren't working a little extra, they're working a LOT extra. Like a week or more per month in some cases.

SlipKid

The majority, apparently, had no problem with it, so they ratified TA2.

RJSAviator76

LTD is available, but if you go out on medical and you run out of sick leave, after a certain period, the Company drops you from your insurance plan, and you have to go on COBRA. SWAPA will reimburse you for COBRA coverage. If you're still out after COBRA runs out, you go on Secondary/VEBA Plan and all of that is a major PITA. But here's another gem... when the Company drops you from insurance, they also drop you from other insurance packages - your life insurance for example. They also drop you and your family from having any travel benefits. In other words, you're done... they no longer have any use for you. Now, considering that pilots are sort of a special category and we're subject to FAA medical certification that other employees here aren't, we now have to pass "the desk test" in order to retain travel benefits... and though it's an improvement because prior to this, you would have to go to your chief pilot and ask them for a pass, it's still grossly subpar to our legacy peers.

If you're unfortunate to go out on long-term medical, you should retain all your benefits just as if you're an active employee. That means not dealing with this COBRA nonsense, that also means your online travel benefits for you and your family, that means peace of mind of your life insurance being left intact. When you're out on medical, the last thing you should worry about is if your medical coverage will remain adequate, if you trusted (and you never should!) the Company with your life insurance, and your medical insurance. You shouldn't chase or beg chiefs for travel benefits for you and your family especially if you have to travel to get treatments elsewhere.

This is where our legacy peers blow us away and this is what needs to be addressed.

When TA2 was announced, our pay rates were indeed the industry-leading narrowbody rates. However, before we concluded our vote, Delta pilots also got their TA with their rates being higher than ours. United pilot contract had a parity clause in which they would match Delta should they get a TA within a specified timeframe which they did. Right there, we got bypassed on our rates before we even finished voting. In light of that, there was a discussion to throw in sweeteners for us to pass our TA2, and addressing our LTD inadequacy was on the table. However, the company negotiator R.M. managed to convince the company that this pilot group would pass the TA2 without this "sweetener" and we proved him right... and that's why I'm proud of my NO vote.

When you start your newhire training, you'll hear all about "The Golden Rule" and how the Company is all over it. Don't forget that it should come with a big fat * next to it if you're the unfortunate soul that goes out on medical long-term as you have all of the above to deal with in addition to dealing with your illness or injury.