Concession discussions in our future?
#161
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
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true mgmt reads them, and they can get your identity no matter how covert you try to be. but giving a preference or an opinion is hardly subject to discipline. just don’t say anything here you wouldn’t express to the company in a town hall or crew room visit.
the Spirit case and others like it had to do with advocating job action which isn’t legal under rla. A much different situation.
the Spirit case and others like it had to do with advocating job action which isn’t legal under rla. A much different situation.
No, expressing an opinion about something outside of a job action or that doesn’t violate the social media policy or something like that won’t get you in trouble.
However, revealing personal demographic information along with how you feel, (eg I was hired in late 2017, I’m a 125xxx number, etc) gives the company and their labor consultants like FordHarrison information that can be used by them to craft a 51% solution that best serves the corporation’s interests.
The corporation is fiduciarily beholden to shareholders, not to employees, and not to pilots. The interests of shareholders do not necessarily align with those of pilots. In fact, they often don’t align.
For example, if management could get away with us paying to go to work, they just might do that. That would be in their interest. That’s called “pay to play”. It happens: Key Lime Air during The Lost Decade and SWA itself had a version of it with the required type rating up until the last few years. That sort of thing is not in pilots’ interests.
So, if management is able to discern from reading APC and from their other sources that a bunch of guys hired in the last few years or a bunch of more senior guys or whatever will accept concessions at almost any cost or with such and such condition attached in order to stave off furloughs, then when the time comes, management and their paid consultants will be able to produce a concessions package with a high degree of confidence will be voted in by our pilot group. That information serves management’s interests, not our interests.
Even if you favor concessions, by providing management (who reads everything written here) with more information than you need to give them, you provide them with ammunition to construct a concessions package with the most savings for the corporation and the most pain for you and your family.
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 659
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Understood that it is relayed to the employees first.
But why go to the media and tell stories about needing concessions to avoid furloughs? You do know how this works right? Get the public and other work group support against those "rich" pilots... If you think this is leaked unintentionally, I've got bridge to sell if you're interested.
How you all handle this eventual has a direct affect on the rest of us.
But why go to the media and tell stories about needing concessions to avoid furloughs? You do know how this works right? Get the public and other work group support against those "rich" pilots... If you think this is leaked unintentionally, I've got bridge to sell if you're interested.
How you all handle this eventual has a direct affect on the rest of us.
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,553
Likes: 397
I guess it’s possible that’s his motivation but I don’t see it. He didn’t mention pilots specifically and mostly was laying out how it would go down if revenue doesn’t bounce back. We are a long way from needing to discuss it. Right now there’s no amount of furloughing that can make up for losing 95% of our business. We’ll know more mid to late summer.
This exactly.
#164
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,259
Likes: 240
From: B737CA
Understood that it is relayed to the employees first.
But why go to the media and tell stories about needing concessions to avoid furloughs? You do know how this works right? Get the public and other work group support against those "rich" pilots... If you think this is leaked unintentionally, I've got bridge to sell if you're interested.
How you all handle this eventual has a direct affect on the rest of us.
But why go to the media and tell stories about needing concessions to avoid furloughs? You do know how this works right? Get the public and other work group support against those "rich" pilots... If you think this is leaked unintentionally, I've got bridge to sell if you're interested.
How you all handle this eventual has a direct affect on the rest of us.
I don't agree much with this guy, but wholeheartedly agree with him here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvIQJ-QurQ
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,553
Likes: 397
The bulk of the info that the media gathers is from our internal but yet available for public consumption videos that Gary puts out. The fear-porn peddlers latch on to the darkest of the dark and keep harping about it while pretty much ignoring the underlying message... and it's disgusting and it's really getting old.
I don't agree much with this guy, but wholeheartedly agree with him here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvIQJ-QurQ
I don't agree much with this guy, but wholeheartedly agree with him here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvIQJ-QurQ
This exactly. Then folks, including our own, read them and panic. Go over to the SWAPA forum for a bit. It's an interesting glimpse into how some people react to fear for their livelihoods.
#166
Banned
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
The bulk of the info that the media gathers is from our internal but yet available for public consumption videos that Gary puts out. The fear-porn peddlers latch on to the darkest of the dark and keep harping about it while pretty much ignoring the underlying message... and it's disgusting and it's really getting old.
I don't agree much with this guy, but wholeheartedly agree with him here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvIQJ-QurQ
I don't agree much with this guy, but wholeheartedly agree with him here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvIQJ-QurQ
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
Over on the Delta forum, this was posted yesterday:
”November 2020 forecast of pilot requirements came out this evening on delta net, 7,370 pilots forecasted on the seniority list?!?!”
If you read further along in the thread, there’s apparently some confusion as to whether or not that number represents an absolute minimum (vs an operating minimum) and what month that forecast is actually for.
However, currently Delta is at 14,600 pilots according to APC. 7,370 reading represents just over 50% of the current level.
”November 2020 forecast of pilot requirements came out this evening on delta net, 7,370 pilots forecasted on the seniority list?!?!”
If you read further along in the thread, there’s apparently some confusion as to whether or not that number represents an absolute minimum (vs an operating minimum) and what month that forecast is actually for.
However, currently Delta is at 14,600 pilots according to APC. 7,370 reading represents just over 50% of the current level.
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 659
Likes: 0
Over on the Delta forum, this was posted yesterday:
”November 2020 forecast of pilot requirements came out this evening on delta net, 7,370 pilots forecasted on the seniority list?!?!”
If you read further along in the thread, there’s apparently some confusion as to whether or not that number represents an absolute minimum (vs an operating minimum) and what month that forecast is actually for.
However, currently Delta is at 14,600 pilots according to APC. 7,370 reading represents just over 50% of the current level.
”November 2020 forecast of pilot requirements came out this evening on delta net, 7,370 pilots forecasted on the seniority list?!?!”
If you read further along in the thread, there’s apparently some confusion as to whether or not that number represents an absolute minimum (vs an operating minimum) and what month that forecast is actually for.
However, currently Delta is at 14,600 pilots according to APC. 7,370 reading represents just over 50% of the current level.
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
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However, it’s relevant information. Whether or not it turns out to be accurate, it’s something. I’d rather be more we’ll-informed than less. Some may prefer otherwise.
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
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