Hard Sell
11-20-2023 | 03:04 PM
#91
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 769
Likes: 77
Today's "Contract 2020 before landing checklist" email sounds like more greasing of the skids. "Competitive compensation"..." Adequate compensation for JA"...
I'm a hard liner NO with JA in the contract still. The only way I could vote for it with JAs still in the language is if 1) I can per the contract say "No." 2) compensation is 300 plus % and 3) 2 for 1 days off comped for day off lost without loss of pay.
I'm a hard liner NO with JA in the contract still. The only way I could vote for it with JAs still in the language is if 1) I can per the contract say "No." 2) compensation is 300 plus % and 3) 2 for 1 days off comped for day off lost without loss of pay.
11-20-2023 | 03:39 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 0
Today's "Contract 2020 before landing checklist" email sounds like more greasing of the skids. "Competitive compensation"..." Adequate compensation for JA"...
I'm a hard liner NO with JA in the contract still. The only way I could vote for it with JAs still in the language is if 1) I can per the contract say "No." 2) compensation is 300 plus % and 3) 2 for 1 days off comped for day off lost without loss of pay.
I'm a hard liner NO with JA in the contract still. The only way I could vote for it with JAs still in the language is if 1) I can per the contract say "No." 2) compensation is 300 plus % and 3) 2 for 1 days off comped for day off lost without loss of pay.
JA while at work for "double time" (that often isn't) was a HUGE SWApA WIN!*
*(for the company).
11-20-2023 | 04:02 PM
#93
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Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
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The Hard Sell Escalates!
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist Series
SWAPA is preparing our approach to Contract 2020 by both being ready to “land” a deal and to “go around” and execute a contingency plan. Every Pilot must do their part to be ready to land. SWAPA has already prepared the membership to execute the go-around.
This Contract 2020 Checklist Series is a quick refresher to help with the land portion of our task and easily highlights the changes in the rewrite of Contract 2020.
We must know the “why” behind the contract to begin to understand a rewritten TA, when we get one. For more on this, listen to the upcoming The SWAPA Number Podcast with NC member Kurt Heidemann that comes out Monday (11/27). So, let’s get started with our first “checklist” item in the series.
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist 1 ...Compensation, LCO, Rigs, Etc.
Beginning in the Flight Plan 2020 document, we find the goals identified at the outset of the negotiation that showed us that Pilots were looking for:
Now let’s look at the Contract 2020 Blueprint for Success series for more on where our Contract goals led to our asks going into negotiations:
There is so much more to be gained if they just had the will to try. In this environment they have to go for every demand and not stop at this.
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist Series
SWAPA is preparing our approach to Contract 2020 by both being ready to “land” a deal and to “go around” and execute a contingency plan. Every Pilot must do their part to be ready to land. SWAPA has already prepared the membership to execute the go-around.
This Contract 2020 Checklist Series is a quick refresher to help with the land portion of our task and easily highlights the changes in the rewrite of Contract 2020.
We must know the “why” behind the contract to begin to understand a rewritten TA, when we get one. For more on this, listen to the upcoming The SWAPA Number Podcast with NC member Kurt Heidemann that comes out Monday (11/27). So, let’s get started with our first “checklist” item in the series.
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist 1 ...Compensation, LCO, Rigs, Etc.
Beginning in the Flight Plan 2020 document, we find the goals identified at the outset of the negotiation that showed us that Pilots were looking for:
- Rates competitive with Big 4 competitors, career compensation
- Clarity on compensation, rigs, pay multiples, overrides
- Adequate compensation for reassignments and JA
- Improved Reserve Pay, Training Pay, MX Check Flights, Company meeting pay
- Timely audits
- Additional holidays capturing premium pay
Now let’s look at the Contract 2020 Blueprint for Success series for more on where our Contract goals led to our asks going into negotiations:
- Capturing additional pay for changes to pairings, JA events, and previously unavailable pay-multiples through Leg Change Override (LCO) is the strategy to compensate our Pilots for reassignments and JAs, while pressuring the Company to reduce their reliance on schedule disruptions to achieve their goals.
- Provide our Pilots with compensation for additional holidays that traditionally are limited from trading, yet uncompensated in premium pay that our counterparts at the Company receive.
- Driving full rigs on open time to encourage open time participation. Pay multiples to ensure that reassignments, or “bait and switch,” are compensated to:
- Ensure that the practice is not encouraged.
- Compensation rewards the inconvenience placed on the Pilot.
There is so much more to be gained if they just had the will to try. In this environment they have to go for every demand and not stop at this.
11-21-2023 | 03:31 AM
#95
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 336
Likes: 7
Exactly.
Deja Vu all over again.
No one will come back to this or any other thread, where they had argued to settle for concessions/"sprinkles", less than we're worth etc., and admit that they were wrong after they've argued to vote YES! for a turd.
The names have changed, but the Koolies (that claim they aren't), still make the exact same arguments on these forums as they've made every other time we've voted on something in my tenure here. The end result is always the same: An industry lagging contract or side letter.
There's a reason that our contracts have always lagged the industry, and the attitude conveyed in many of these posts are it. And no, this time is not "different", I've been reading this same stuff for decades.
In spite of an industry leading, record breaking SAV, in a previously unimaginable negotiating environment for pilots, SWAPA is already accepting less than we're worth. Again.
A few of the "sprinkles" (AIPed sections) that SWAPA has already told us about (hotels, LCO, not getting rid of JA, still getting straight pay for sick or fatigue calls on premium awards, co domiciles etc), are already more than enough for for me to vote no, unless they hit the rest of it way out of the park on the big items.
I sincerely hope that I am wrong, but I suspect that there will be many more "sprinkles" added, that will reinforce my no vote when the "language" comes out.
Of course, most folks will not look past the pay rates and ignore the work rules that will, inevitably, erode them.
We'll see.
Deja Vu all over again.
No one will come back to this or any other thread, where they had argued to settle for concessions/"sprinkles", less than we're worth etc., and admit that they were wrong after they've argued to vote YES! for a turd.
The names have changed, but the Koolies (that claim they aren't), still make the exact same arguments on these forums as they've made every other time we've voted on something in my tenure here. The end result is always the same: An industry lagging contract or side letter.
There's a reason that our contracts have always lagged the industry, and the attitude conveyed in many of these posts are it. And no, this time is not "different", I've been reading this same stuff for decades.
In spite of an industry leading, record breaking SAV, in a previously unimaginable negotiating environment for pilots, SWAPA is already accepting less than we're worth. Again.
A few of the "sprinkles" (AIPed sections) that SWAPA has already told us about (hotels, LCO, not getting rid of JA, still getting straight pay for sick or fatigue calls on premium awards, co domiciles etc), are already more than enough for for me to vote no, unless they hit the rest of it way out of the park on the big items.
I sincerely hope that I am wrong, but I suspect that there will be many more "sprinkles" added, that will reinforce my no vote when the "language" comes out.
Of course, most folks will not look past the pay rates and ignore the work rules that will, inevitably, erode them.
We'll see.
11-21-2023 | 11:10 AM
#96
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Likes: 0
The Hard Sell Escalates!
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist Series
SWAPA is preparing our approach to Contract 2020 by both being ready to “land” a deal and to “go around” and execute a contingency plan. Every Pilot must do their part to be ready to land. SWAPA has already prepared the membership to execute the go-around.
This Contract 2020 Checklist Series is a quick refresher to help with the land portion of our task and easily highlights the changes in the rewrite of Contract 2020.
We must know the “why” behind the contract to begin to understand a rewritten TA, when we get one. For more on this, listen to the upcoming The SWAPA Number Podcast with NC member Kurt Heidemann that comes out Monday (11/27). So, let’s get started with our first “checklist” item in the series.
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist 1 ...Compensation, LCO, Rigs, Etc.
Beginning in the Flight Plan 2020 document, we find the goals identified at the outset of the negotiation that showed us that Pilots were looking for:
Now let’s look at the Contract 2020 Blueprint for Success series for more on where our Contract goals led to our asks going into negotiations:
There is so much more to be gained if they just had the will to try. In this environment they have to go for every demand and not stop at this.
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist Series
SWAPA is preparing our approach to Contract 2020 by both being ready to “land” a deal and to “go around” and execute a contingency plan. Every Pilot must do their part to be ready to land. SWAPA has already prepared the membership to execute the go-around.
This Contract 2020 Checklist Series is a quick refresher to help with the land portion of our task and easily highlights the changes in the rewrite of Contract 2020.
We must know the “why” behind the contract to begin to understand a rewritten TA, when we get one. For more on this, listen to the upcoming The SWAPA Number Podcast with NC member Kurt Heidemann that comes out Monday (11/27). So, let’s get started with our first “checklist” item in the series.
Contract 2020 Before Landing Checklist 1 ...Compensation, LCO, Rigs, Etc.
Beginning in the Flight Plan 2020 document, we find the goals identified at the outset of the negotiation that showed us that Pilots were looking for:
- Rates competitive with Big 4 competitors, career compensation
- Clarity on compensation, rigs, pay multiples, overrides
- Adequate compensation for reassignments and JA
- Improved Reserve Pay, Training Pay, MX Check Flights, Company meeting pay
- Timely audits
- Additional holidays capturing premium pay
Now let’s look at the Contract 2020 Blueprint for Success series for more on where our Contract goals led to our asks going into negotiations:
- Capturing additional pay for changes to pairings, JA events, and previously unavailable pay-multiples through Leg Change Override (LCO) is the strategy to compensate our Pilots for reassignments and JAs, while pressuring the Company to reduce their reliance on schedule disruptions to achieve their goals.
- Provide our Pilots with compensation for additional holidays that traditionally are limited from trading, yet uncompensated in premium pay that our counterparts at the Company receive.
- Driving full rigs on open time to encourage open time participation. Pay multiples to ensure that reassignments, or “bait and switch,” are compensated to:
- Ensure that the practice is not encouraged.
- Compensation rewards the inconvenience placed on the Pilot.
There is so much more to be gained if they just had the will to try. In this environment they have to go for every demand and not stop at this.
SWAPA has no choice but to go for the brass ring. It’s the only ethical pathway in view of the environment we’re in.
Certain AIPed sections have to be reopened because the dynamics have changed, and co-domiciles need to be shelved for now and possibly MOUed later.
That’s the only right pathway.
11-21-2023 | 11:23 AM
#97
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
From: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
Ironically FOM Foolish Prode is preventing a repoll of key poison pill issues, as BOD education and cat herding is considered mission complete .
What if 35+% of the pilot group that hasnt particpated in the full SEP upsets the assumptions being made right now.
How is that good for you if your pronoun is either Yes or No or Maybe, it's not good for anyone.
That'll be one painfully obvious error for us all and easy to account error for after the fact. And an error that will cost the Time Value Yessies and the Forum Negative Nos and everyone in between if a SWAPA power on reset is needed for a TA2.
What if 35+% of the pilot group that hasnt particpated in the full SEP upsets the assumptions being made right now.
How is that good for you if your pronoun is either Yes or No or Maybe, it's not good for anyone.
That'll be one painfully obvious error for us all and easy to account error for after the fact. And an error that will cost the Time Value Yessies and the Forum Negative Nos and everyone in between if a SWAPA power on reset is needed for a TA2.
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