buzzpat

Someone killed your cat? Why so sad?

proletariatav8r

buzzpat, check your PM

DLJK

As someone in my early 30's sitting near the bottom of this new list. I agree that looking at an 18 year upgrade isn't exactly how I visioned my career would go. However when I step back and realize that the biggest factor in getting to where I want to be in 30 years, isn't when I upgrade but rather how soon can I get a nest egg and the power of compound interest working for me. With that said the best thing for my future, is a job where as an FO I can start to make decent money while still relatively young. As I compare career paths with other of my regional friends who have moved on, it is likely they'll beat me to the left seat, but I like my odds of having a nest egg that will bring more to me in the long term than the harm of a delayed upgrade for a few years. Just the perspective of someone looking up at this new list.

buzzpat

Got it. Will respond soon. Completely understand!

gloopy

I can't fault that logic in and of itself. But does this proposed SLI contain relative seniority snapbacks if there are ever pay cuts in the future? Shirley SWAPA would have no problem including a stipulation like that, since pay cuts are impossible at the mightiest airline on earth, right?

DeadHead

Extremely smart perspective.


+1

Seniority is non-negotiable once agreed upon , pay, however, is something that can change drastically from one contract to another. If the status quo stays as is, and SWA continues to lead the industry in pay, then guys like DLJK have no need to worry about upgrade as a goal to reach financial stability.

If, however, harder times happen to fall upon SWA, and drastic contractual cuts need to be made, FOs may not see 10+ years in the right seat in the same light as they do now. I of course don't wish any of this on anyone pilot group, just playing devil's advocate here, bad contractual agreements regarding SLIs seem to become much, much worse during harder times, and 10 years is a long time.

Clear Right

DLJK,
This is a very logical thought process, however you are probably new to the Airline Industry. What you will find as you gain experience is that Seniority is absolutely the most important thing in your airline career. Pay and benefits come and go, but seniority will define your career. You absolutely can not blame SWAPA for trying to negotiate a Seniority Grab on behalf of their pilot group, and justifying it through the pay raise. But, by the same token, ALPA should be fighting tooth and nail to prevent a seniority windfall for WN pilots.

SWAPA is very smart, they are trying to secure the votes of the AirTran Captains (seat protection/pay raise) as well as the Junior F/Os (pay raise) at the expense of the middle seniority group, all the senior F/Os. My humble opinion is, an arbitrator would use a better Ratio model. But that is the million dollar question for AirTran voting pilots, what do you do? Take the pay with the staple job or roll the dice through arbitration. SWAPA is hoping pilot greed will prevail and you take the deal for the money. I would speculate, IMHO that most AirTran pilots will regret this decision in the long run, even with a nice "nest egg" in their bank account.

KC10 FATboy

SWA's cultural identity are at risk here. Should one group feel like they were screwed over, it will fester. And one only has to look at the legacy's to understand what happens when the workforce becomes divided.

newKnow

Because, to take a hit in relative seniority is one thing. But, to add additional restrictions to upgrade time is something entirely different. It's a double hit.

It's as if all AT pilots will lose relative seniority for schedule bidding purposes, but all AT FO's will be effectively stapled to the bottom of the list for upgrade purposes for 9 years.

In essence, what seems to be offered is a 9 year staple for AT FO's. Which will seem much longer, because it's not like in 2020 all of them will be magically made captains. If SWA is not upgrading, they wait some more. Even if they are upgrading, it's one at a time.

The offer is a clever way to mask the staple, but it is what it is.

OscartheGrouch

The "mightiest" airline on earth? Naw.............but don't call me Shirley!