2017 Hiring Numbers?
11-15-2016 | 11:29 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 500
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From: 737 F/O
I suppose I can once and only once. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with people who were not personally there to witness my take home pay drop 25% thanks to "winning the lottery". Gmafb
I came over as a fairly senior Cptn IN MY AIRTRAN DOMICILE at $174.97/hr. Being that the base was closed by SWA (something that is understandable and purely a business decision) and of course losing 32% of my relative seniority, I now found myself IN MY NEW SWA DOMICILE as a mid-level FO making $132.84 a trip or if we multiply that by 1.149 = $153.63/hr.
While SWA flying is productive (thankfully), I was also flying productive trips out of my old AT domicile. In fact, in the three months prior to transitioning/downgrading I hussled because I knew I would be facing a sizeable pay cut. In those three months I was able to gross 77K.
Combine all of this with the fact that my AirTran B Fund went "poof" and I now had to contribute 10% of my gross to my 401K if I wanted to get the company match (you'd be crazy not to as it's a 100% ROI). Unfortunately, that also meant that 10% was immediately sucked off my gross for essentially every year as a SWA FO because my W2s are consistently 175K-180K, thus to hit my max contribution I needed to keep contributing for the entire year.
If you combine the reduced pay rate along with my B Fund going bu bye and subsequently "having" to contribute 10% of my gross to my 401K, then yes you arrive at roughly a 25% cut in take home pay give or take a few percent. I should know. I was the one getting the checks.
Now I know someone's going to raise the argument that we at AT only got our new contract with the improved pay rates due to SWA buying us. To which I say......bull$7it. After six years in negotiations and with a high 90s strike vote and participation level, coupled with the fact that we were most likely small enough to get released to self-help by the government.......well, I'm confident that we would have secured those pay rates OR BETTER on our own.
Pragmatically, this was a bad deal for myself and many others in the short to mid-term. In the long term I'm confident that it will be a positive (although I much prefer that one of the Big 3 had bought us instead).
Even the most bitter and irate FAT pilots accept the airline industry for what it is.....mergers, buyouts, downgrades, forloughs, and bankruptcies. What we don't accept is SWAPA & SWA management working in tandem to deliberately **** us out of our seats and seniority. THAT will forever make some of us resentful, and if anyone tries to claim that that exact deliberate and coordinated act didn't happen then they're just insulting my intelligence. Then to further pour salt on the wound, we have here and out on the line those who actually have the gall to tell me and others what a great deal a pay cut, downgrade and a loss of a third of our seniority was. Perhaps in the long run but again, not in the short or mid-term.
I'm done and will not be engaging in further discussion or argument on this thread about this topic. I've done my best to represent and describe my particular circumstances as accurately and best as possible. If some of you are actually arrogant enough to claim to know my take home checks from an AT Cptn to SWA FO better than the person receiving them then there's really no reasoning with you.
I came over as a fairly senior Cptn IN MY AIRTRAN DOMICILE at $174.97/hr. Being that the base was closed by SWA (something that is understandable and purely a business decision) and of course losing 32% of my relative seniority, I now found myself IN MY NEW SWA DOMICILE as a mid-level FO making $132.84 a trip or if we multiply that by 1.149 = $153.63/hr.
While SWA flying is productive (thankfully), I was also flying productive trips out of my old AT domicile. In fact, in the three months prior to transitioning/downgrading I hussled because I knew I would be facing a sizeable pay cut. In those three months I was able to gross 77K.
Combine all of this with the fact that my AirTran B Fund went "poof" and I now had to contribute 10% of my gross to my 401K if I wanted to get the company match (you'd be crazy not to as it's a 100% ROI). Unfortunately, that also meant that 10% was immediately sucked off my gross for essentially every year as a SWA FO because my W2s are consistently 175K-180K, thus to hit my max contribution I needed to keep contributing for the entire year.
If you combine the reduced pay rate along with my B Fund going bu bye and subsequently "having" to contribute 10% of my gross to my 401K, then yes you arrive at roughly a 25% cut in take home pay give or take a few percent. I should know. I was the one getting the checks.
Now I know someone's going to raise the argument that we at AT only got our new contract with the improved pay rates due to SWA buying us. To which I say......bull$7it. After six years in negotiations and with a high 90s strike vote and participation level, coupled with the fact that we were most likely small enough to get released to self-help by the government.......well, I'm confident that we would have secured those pay rates OR BETTER on our own.
Pragmatically, this was a bad deal for myself and many others in the short to mid-term. In the long term I'm confident that it will be a positive (although I much prefer that one of the Big 3 had bought us instead).
Even the most bitter and irate FAT pilots accept the airline industry for what it is.....mergers, buyouts, downgrades, forloughs, and bankruptcies. What we don't accept is SWAPA & SWA management working in tandem to deliberately **** us out of our seats and seniority. THAT will forever make some of us resentful, and if anyone tries to claim that that exact deliberate and coordinated act didn't happen then they're just insulting my intelligence. Then to further pour salt on the wound, we have here and out on the line those who actually have the gall to tell me and others what a great deal a pay cut, downgrade and a loss of a third of our seniority was. Perhaps in the long run but again, not in the short or mid-term.
I'm done and will not be engaging in further discussion or argument on this thread about this topic. I've done my best to represent and describe my particular circumstances as accurately and best as possible. If some of you are actually arrogant enough to claim to know my take home checks from an AT Cptn to SWA FO better than the person receiving them then there's really no reasoning with you.
I've always wondered why you claimed you took a pay cut when you came over but now it makes sense.
11-15-2016 | 05:44 PM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 248
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From: 717 Capt.
"Even the most bitter and irate FAT pilots accept the airline industry for what it is.....mergers, buyouts, downgrades, forloughs, and bankruptcies. What we don't accept is SWAPA & SWA management working in tandem to deliberately **** us out of our seats and seniority. THAT will forever make some of us resentful, and if anyone tries to claim that that exact deliberate and coordinated act didn't happen then they're just insulting my intelligence."
You summed it up nicely.
You summed it up nicely.
11-15-2016 | 06:21 PM
#133
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 282
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
"Even the most bitter and irate FAT pilots accept the airline industry for what it is.....mergers, buyouts, downgrades, forloughs, and bankruptcies. What we don't accept is SWAPA & SWA management working in tandem to deliberately **** us out of our seats and seniority. THAT will forever make some of us resentful, and if anyone tries to claim that that exact deliberate and coordinated act didn't happen then they're just insulting my intelligence."
You summed it up nicely.
You summed it up nicely.
Admittledly.....yes I did. When two non-bankrupt carriers combine to make a whole and one carrier is so utterly pompous and so full of themselves as to suggest in SLI proceedings that all of our pilots be placed on probation (Yes, even our most senior captains), then it's clear that there's a problem with realistic expectations. A large part of this can be chalked up to many of those not being exposed to the 121 world previously.
DLA bought NWA, a bankrupt carrier. There was ZERO call to staple them or place them all on probation like there was with the NON-BANKRUPT AT/SWA merger.
I don't know, Rizzo. Maybe if you and I and our former pilot group got together to blackmail another pilot group into submitting to an SLI screw job, we'd probably be trying to make ourselves feel better by twisting the truth and reality, too. Ya think?
11-15-2016 | 06:42 PM
#134
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 282
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Remember back in 05ish when Midwest Express was on the rocks and we made a play for them? Was there any calls for this bull$7it that SWAPA/SWA pulled on us?
11-15-2016 | 06:58 PM
#136
New Hire
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7
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If you (Whackmaster and Rizzo) were on probation for one year and they decided to keep you I would say SW was MORE than fair with you. If it were my decision, I would root out negative attitudes...they tend to not improve over time, only get worse. If you haven't gotten over this issue at this point, you never will. This thread is called "2017 Hiring Numbers" not "I feel I was Treated Poorly in 2011 and Can't Get Over It." Feel free to start that thread.
The truth is, nobody is forcing you to work at Southwest Airlines. You were free to say "No Thanks" after the merger and go find employment elsewhere. Heck, you are still free to leave. Guess what, you can upgrade in less than a year at Delta.
If you worked at an auto manufacturing plant that made a business decision to produce a certain line of cars at a different plant, it would likely result in layoffs of a significant portion of, if not the entire work force at that particular plant. It sucks, I know. That's the world we live in. Things aren't always fair and we can't see the future.
I would love the opportunity to fly for Southwest Airlines, and my guess is most people coming to read this thread would too. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, however I feel that you are wasting everyone's time. You aren't going to change anyone's mind. You clearly aren't ever going to make yourself feel better either. Did your career go just the way you wanted it to? No. Most people's don't. However, you are working for a great company with a solid balance sheet...and that strong balance sheet is not propped up by a past bankruptcy that expunged significant debt and/or liabilities.
If it is truly so horrible for you to work for Southwest Airlines, you really do need to leave. Life is too short to be miserable all the time and you deserve to be happy. I wish you the best and hope that someday you find something that fulfills you.
The truth is, nobody is forcing you to work at Southwest Airlines. You were free to say "No Thanks" after the merger and go find employment elsewhere. Heck, you are still free to leave. Guess what, you can upgrade in less than a year at Delta.
If you worked at an auto manufacturing plant that made a business decision to produce a certain line of cars at a different plant, it would likely result in layoffs of a significant portion of, if not the entire work force at that particular plant. It sucks, I know. That's the world we live in. Things aren't always fair and we can't see the future.
I would love the opportunity to fly for Southwest Airlines, and my guess is most people coming to read this thread would too. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, however I feel that you are wasting everyone's time. You aren't going to change anyone's mind. You clearly aren't ever going to make yourself feel better either. Did your career go just the way you wanted it to? No. Most people's don't. However, you are working for a great company with a solid balance sheet...and that strong balance sheet is not propped up by a past bankruptcy that expunged significant debt and/or liabilities.
If it is truly so horrible for you to work for Southwest Airlines, you really do need to leave. Life is too short to be miserable all the time and you deserve to be happy. I wish you the best and hope that someday you find something that fulfills you.
11-15-2016 | 07:00 PM
#137
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 282
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
My advice to the next group: Tell SWAPA/SWA to go pound sand and take it straight to arbitration.
11-15-2016 | 07:03 PM
#138
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 282
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
If you (Whackmaster and Rizzo) were on probation for one year and they decided to keep you I would say SW was MORE than fair with you. If it were my decision, I would root out negative attitudes...they tend to not improve over time, only get worse. If you haven't gotten over this issue at this point, you never will. This thread is called "2017 Hiring Numbers" not "I feel I was Treated Poorly in 2011 and Can't Get Over It." Feel free to start that thread.
The truth is, nobody is forcing you to work at Southwest Airlines. You were free to say "No Thanks" after the merger and go find employment elsewhere. Heck, you are still free to leave. Guess what, you can upgrade in less than a year at Delta.
If you worked at an auto manufacturing plant that made a business decision to produce a certain line of cars at a different plant, it would likely result in layoffs of a significant portion of, if not the entire work force at that particular plant. It sucks, I know. That's the world we live in. Things aren't always fair and we can't see the future.
I would love the opportunity to fly for Southwest Airlines, and my guess is most people coming to read this thread would too. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, however I feel that you are wasting everyone's time. You aren't going to change anyone's mind. You clearly aren't ever going to make yourself feel better either. Did your career go just the way you wanted it to? No. Most people's don't. However, you are working for a great company with a solid balance sheet...and that strong balance sheet is not propped up by a past bankruptcy that expunged significant debt and/or liabilities.
If it is truly so horrible for you to work for Southwest Airlines, you really do need to leave. Life is too short to be miserable all the time and you deserve to be happy. I wish you the best and hope that someday you find something that fulfills you.
The truth is, nobody is forcing you to work at Southwest Airlines. You were free to say "No Thanks" after the merger and go find employment elsewhere. Heck, you are still free to leave. Guess what, you can upgrade in less than a year at Delta.
If you worked at an auto manufacturing plant that made a business decision to produce a certain line of cars at a different plant, it would likely result in layoffs of a significant portion of, if not the entire work force at that particular plant. It sucks, I know. That's the world we live in. Things aren't always fair and we can't see the future.
I would love the opportunity to fly for Southwest Airlines, and my guess is most people coming to read this thread would too. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, however I feel that you are wasting everyone's time. You aren't going to change anyone's mind. You clearly aren't ever going to make yourself feel better either. Did your career go just the way you wanted it to? No. Most people's don't. However, you are working for a great company with a solid balance sheet...and that strong balance sheet is not propped up by a past bankruptcy that expunged significant debt and/or liabilities.
If it is truly so horrible for you to work for Southwest Airlines, you really do need to leave. Life is too short to be miserable all the time and you deserve to be happy. I wish you the best and hope that someday you find something that fulfills you.
"Your attitude is being noticed. It does not fit in with our CULTure and idealogy".
11-15-2016 | 07:07 PM
#139
New Hire
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Very well thought out counterpoint. Somehow I'm not surprised this is the best response you could come up with. All the best.
11-15-2016 | 07:11 PM
#140
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 282
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
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