Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Actually, we were at the bottom of the industry among our peers. We didn't even have B-plan, and we were told over and over that we would NEVER have a B-plan at Southwest Airlines. TA1 only included 0.7% increase in 401k match. Our peers at Delta, United and American all had either 15 or 16% B-plan.

Well... 9-10 months later, after changing NC and our union leadership, we had industry-leading pay rates, until Delta and subsequently United with their me-too clause passed us, and we also got a B-plan.

It all boils down to what you're willing to accept. Pay comes and goes... PBS was a major concession of the last decade, and you're giving it away for bringing you closer to industry standard? I also think you should read a little more about LTD at other airlines and see how things work elsewhere since many of you seem to be excited about it. Hint, you can and should do FAR better.

As for unity... well, that's up to your leadership, how communicative they are, and how fired up they are. When we were in negotiations, we were getting something almost every day from the union. When over 1,000 pilots showed up for a picket in Dallas during blistering heat... you couldn't ignore it. Mind you, this is the biggest koolaid drinking pilot group in the industry. Strong leadership and defined goals. Do you have that?

I don't know what to say to you guys. I'd like to see you engage in a pattern-based bargaining fashion, or at least get very close, but you seem to be going against the very lanyard many of you wear and it's puzzling, to say the least.

Originally Posted by Neptune2004

Your pay might have been low compared to your peers but it wasn’t NK low, especially the FO rates. Scope and LTD for you guys was pretty solid as well. Again all these things make the decision to shoot down a TA and wait for the next one much easier.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Actually, we were at the bottom of the industry among our peers. We didn't even have B-plan, and we were told over and over that we would NEVER have a B-plan at Southwest Airlines. TA1 only included 0.7% increase in 401k match. Our peers at Delta, United and American all had either 15 or 16% B-plan.

Well... 9-10 months later, after changing NC and our union leadership, we had industry-leading pay rates, until Delta and subsequently United with their me-too clause passed us, and we also got a B-plan.

It all boils down to what you're willing to accept. Pay comes and goes... PBS was a major concession of the last decade, and you're giving it away for bringing you closer to industry standard? I also think you should read a little more about LTD at other airlines and see how things work elsewhere since many of you seem to be excited about it. Hint, you can and should do FAR better.

As for unity... well, that's up to your leadership, how communicative they are, and how fired up they are. When we were in negotiations, we were getting something almost every day from the union. When over 1,000 pilots showed up for a picket in Dallas during blistering heat... you couldn't ignore it. Mind you, this is the biggest koolaid drinking pilot group in the industry. Strong leadership and defined goals. Do you have that?

I don't know what to say to you guys. I'd like to see you engage in a pattern-based bargaining fashion, or at least get very close, but you seem to be going against the very lanyard many of you wear and it's puzzling, to say the least.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Actually, our scope was solid. Our LTD STILL needs to be worked on and is one of the main reasons I voted no on our TA2. Yet, it's light years away from yours... and it shouldn't be. Yet, you're choosing to settle for it. You're also totally failing to see the retirement gain in our TA2 as opposed to TA1 and the effect it had on pilots.



Sure! Just like some people like to be choked, slapped, hogtied and whipped as part of their bedroom fun...



It's not just PBS. Assuming you wear the 'Discount Fares, Not Discount Pilots' lanyard... do you think you'll live up to that if you vote YES? Only you can answer that...

Originally Posted by Beans

Awesome informed post!!!

The question you are answering with your vote on this TA is, am I a low tier pilot or am I a equal pilot to my peers. This contract is not industry leading or standard on any section as a whole. You have fought to long and hard for this. Just remember Delta management and SWA management played major scare tactics and hinged aircraft orders on TA1. The NMB can’t and won’t force you to take a contract. The laws are set to force a further negotiation after a failed TA1 or to release for a strike. It’s that simple.

WHAT WILL YOUR INDUSTRY PEERS THINK OF YOU IN 2 MONTHS WALKING THROUGH THE TERMINAL? WILL THEY SAY THOSE GUYS/GALS ARE INDUSTRY BOTTOM FEEDERS OR WILL THEY SAY YOU ARE INDUSTRY STANDARD.

Originally Posted by Neptune2004

I didn’t design the lanyard and no one asked me for my input, I wore it to show unity.

Spirit is a 112 plane operation. How was the contract and compensation at Southwest when they had 112? For years southwest subsidized their growth much like spirit is doing today with labor costs.

I appreciate your insight and opinion but it’s really easy to be a 700+ airplane powerhouse and tell people what area their TA is lacking in and if you voted down your TA2 like you said you did, you were in the 16% and it just proves that no matter how good of a deal is, some pilots will never be happy.

The fact is we’re bottom of the barrel now. To get everything we need to be industry standard across the board under 1 TA is next to impossible. The Company has shown the NMB they’ve thrown more than enough of money into this deal (wether we think so or not). They have the power to release us since we filed for mediation and under Trump administration that’ll never happen.

Originally Posted by UNSUBSCRIBE

Take a deep breadth man, relax. If you are close to upgrade you’d be foolish (as of now IMO) to jump to SWA as a forever F/O.

Originally Posted by Neptune2004

Lmao I don’t participate in dick measuring contests. When I see a regional pilot or any other pilot from an airline with an inferior contract, I don’t think any less of them, if you do, then you’re an pompous ahole. I the end of the day, this TA gives improved pay for my family and I, job security and peace of mind. The scheduling section although new to spirit, is pretty industry standard. I keep the 4 days off and red/green system to drop or trade. At the end of the day it should be Spirit pilots who decide not anyone else.

Originally Posted by Beans

Well Neptune this post says it all for you. You are ok with being a discount bottom of your peers barrel pilot. It’s that simple. I hope you don’t wear the lanyards because your not willing to do what they say.