2008 pay was negotiated prior to the economic fall of 2008, years before. So times were still good.

 

Hahahahahaha!!!!!

“Highly skilled thespian”. LMAO!

You’ve now lost all credibility in debates. 😂😁

 

And there you go, let the company come to the union for a mid contract addition to first year pay to attract new hires, not the company wanting a trade off during section 6 for higher pay.

I do wonder if the union would agree to this however. IF the company needs to increase pay to staff planes, I dont imagine the MEC would agree to let them have this while dragging out the rest of the contract Section 6 talks.

 

Haha...thespian is to actor as what "professional aviator" is to pilot. The fancier sounding the title is best when making a point about the higher pay they deserve.

 

I'll take your word for it because I just don't know enough about those rates, but even you must agree that arguing that current Spirit rates are better than what was negotiated in the mid 2000s is a silly comparison.

 

What is happening at the regionals today as described above is exactly why the union doesn't bother with expending negotiating capital on new hires. The market will correct without union intervention when the labor supply is squeezed. It's not fair and you don't have to like it, but it is reality. You can either figure it out and make it work, or wait it out (at the expense of seniority) until the market corrects. YOU have to decide what is worth more to you, seniority now or more money later on.

Totally your call, hoss.

 

It wasn't my point and has not been my point.

Even for 2008 standards, those pay rates were low but pattern bargaining has raised those rates to where they are today, $90 or so. Im not saying "Hey, our guys get paid more than CAL did in 2008." Im saying they had low pay in the not too distant past and were able to raise it through some successful Section 6 bargaining.

Spirit will do the same and just as CAL looks back at the rates of 20008 and says "Jeez, that first year pay and heathcare delay was junk," I believe we will be able to look back eventually and say, just as they did, "Wow, that first year pay and healthcare delay was junk." Legacy carriers increased all rates across the board and never did any of those airlines campaign on "we will sacrifice from the top to increase the bottom." It was always "All longevity will see increases to reflect their contributions."

Zero chance ALPA will ever campaign on the idea of cutting from the top to subsidize the bottom; that mantra has always been to raise pay at all levels; some things can't be accomplished in one contract cycle. And just as we have pilots who were upset we are not Delta and a 16% DC from day 1, it takes more than one cycle to hit all those things. And as long as the Minstrel CEO doesnt sink the airline, we will see great gains next go around. Maybe too some of our apathetic pilots can actually get out this time and march for an hour on a day off.

Its back and forth but we all agree, there is zero reason why at the end of the next cycle we dont see FOs at triple digit first year pay and senior CAs making significantly more as well.

 

Here’s a Q:

So if you bid “last out” on reserve I assume you could expect to have at least some of those reserve days at home. Can you pick up normal trips out of open time on your days off, and have those go above guarantee?

For example you’re on reserve you’re getting 72 hours no matter what. And say you pick up 20 hours of flying on your days off. That’s a 92 hour pay check right? And yes I’m aware that this plan can backfire if they use you on all your reserve days.

Also, how often are these X/Y calls occurring? Isn’t it extremely rare?

And just to add my 2 cents to the first year pay. Yeah it won’t knock your socks off but it’s a small price to pay to be joining such a great company that offers great pay a few years down the road and a good pilot group to boot. Any regional guy turning this place down over first year pay is a clown in my book. The QOL and pay at regionals is a joke.

 

So if you bid “last out” on reserve I assume you could expect to have at least some of those reserve days at home. Can you pick up normal trips out of open time on your days off, and have those go above guarantee?

You can't pick up any normal time on reserve.

For example you’re on reserve you’re getting 72 hours no matter what. And say you pick up 20 hours of flying on your days off. That’s a 92 hour pay check right? And yes I’m aware that this plan can backfire if they use you on all your reserve days.

If they fly you above guarantee or you get some move up pay (1.5 hours per day) for a pairing you'll be paid whatever extra over guarantee.

Also, how often are these X/Y calls occurring? Isn’t it extremely rare?

Summer is good for it, weather events, meltdowns, etc. However, you're on a master list for the year that tracks your premium credit earned, and as you earn more premium, you go further down the list. Then you're relying on those above you on the X/Y lists to turn down the phone call for you to get it.

And just to add my 2 cents to the first year pay. Yeah it won’t knock your socks off but it’s a small price to pay to be joining such a great company that offers great pay a few years down the road and a good pilot group to boot. Any regional guy turning this place down over first year pay is a clown in my book. The QOL and pay at regionals is a joke.

We've beat this to death on this thread, but almost all of of us think this is a career airline, not simply a stepping stone for year one pilots.

 

Oh ouch so you can’t pick up anything at all on your days off to credit higher unless you’re a line holder ?