Spirit of NKS
06-27-2015, 12:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Low paid Airbus gear slinger
Posts: 815
Originally Posted by frotter
Fountainhead Speech
If we take a moment and educate ourselves on the reality of the relationship between the players in this field, we may reconsider relieving any of those players(mgt) from the outcome of their incompetence (scheduling/gate/ops staffing/outsourcing), poor planning (no thought about contingencies) , and welfare minded reliance on other parties in our product(team players GIVE AWAY their skill/time/product, when mgt cries desperation from the position in which THEY put themselves). The link attached is to a good read addressing how we should approach negotiating the worth of our service, not from our position, but from MANAGMENT's...they have a need for our service...our negotiations should be a function of THAT NEED, not OUR WANT.
NKS shareholders, BB included, have reaped enormous gain from our labor...it is a function of that marketplace success/gain from which we should be discussing how much THEY NEED our skill. Throw in how we rescued them from their own misguided course deviations of the recent past, and our options as SKILLED AGENTS in the work place, and how we can go and be compensated appropriately for the skill, expertise, and hard work, elsewhere if the place shuts down as a function of THEIR POOR PERFORMANCE. I would feel ridden hard and put away, if I neglected my own home world, to pitch in and stave of Spirit's crash of this recent IROP, and then receive this slap in the face of this NC update.
If we take a moment and educate ourselves on the reality of the relationship between the players in this field, we may reconsider relieving any of those players(mgt) from the outcome of their incompetence (scheduling/gate/ops staffing/outsourcing), poor planning (no thought about contingencies) , and welfare minded reliance on other parties in our product(team players GIVE AWAY their skill/time/product, when mgt cries desperation from the position in which THEY put themselves). The link attached is to a good read addressing how we should approach negotiating the worth of our service, not from our position, but from MANAGMENT's...they have a need for our service...our negotiations should be a function of THAT NEED, not OUR WANT.
NKS shareholders, BB included, have reaped enormous gain from our labor...it is a function of that marketplace success/gain from which we should be discussing how much THEY NEED our skill. Throw in how we rescued them from their own misguided course deviations of the recent past, and our options as SKILLED AGENTS in the work place, and how we can go and be compensated appropriately for the skill, expertise, and hard work, elsewhere if the place shuts down as a function of THEIR POOR PERFORMANCE. I would feel ridden hard and put away, if I neglected my own home world, to pitch in and stave of Spirit's crash of this recent IROP, and then receive this slap in the face of this NC update.
06-27-2015, 01:00 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by 8JRMfortheyear
I thought 5 yrs of pinnacle training prepared you enough.
06-28-2015, 05:52 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 33
Jason, thanks for doing what you do. I do not think anyone here would want your job.
Now that management is giving us a s### sandwich, it will be interesting to see how they weather the next IROP. Only a moron would pick up open time or come in on his day off to help. Management is just interested in higher profit margins and walking all over the employees to get them. This is exactly how unions came about. Too much Greed at the top. Even wall street questions the sustainability. This company is weak right now. They have ****ed off every workgroup and our customers. We need new management that is interested in the long term growth and sustainability.
Now that management is giving us a s### sandwich, it will be interesting to see how they weather the next IROP. Only a moron would pick up open time or come in on his day off to help. Management is just interested in higher profit margins and walking all over the employees to get them. This is exactly how unions came about. Too much Greed at the top. Even wall street questions the sustainability. This company is weak right now. They have ****ed off every workgroup and our customers. We need new management that is interested in the long term growth and sustainability.
06-28-2015, 08:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 253
I'm joining the bandwagon I guess Jason. What did you expect?! If anything I think what you experienced will get you a little closer to the the mindset of the type of management team your dealing with. Another year or two and maybe you'll graduate to a full understanding. We give-give-give, they take-take-take! And then what do we get? A big kick in the sack along with the HR feel good fluff: "thanks for all you do", "friends flying friends", yada yada. Geee..... isn't life grand.....my company loves me........PUUUUUKE! I truly get wanting to do your part to help. It's in our nature (most of us anyway) yet when you get kicked in the nuts enough, it puts one in a bad position because if you start to realize how much your being taken advantage of, it forces you to have to consciously turn away from that nature or it will continue!
By the way I do appreciate your efforts also. I do believe you have good intent even though it seemed you attached yourself to the tinfoil crowd initially! But as usual I see a lot of them have turned on you! It seems time may have enlightened you a bit? I've never done any union work but do understand its a thankless position......especially at this airline! Never been around so many conspiracy type haters in my life! Especially in regard to our NC. The abuse they take yet continue to work hard on our behalf! They can't always get everything right guys! But they do understand this management so let them do their job and thank them!
By the way I do appreciate your efforts also. I do believe you have good intent even though it seemed you attached yourself to the tinfoil crowd initially! But as usual I see a lot of them have turned on you! It seems time may have enlightened you a bit? I've never done any union work but do understand its a thankless position......especially at this airline! Never been around so many conspiracy type haters in my life! Especially in regard to our NC. The abuse they take yet continue to work hard on our behalf! They can't always get everything right guys! But they do understand this management so let them do their job and thank them!
06-28-2015, 09:03 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A-320
Posts: 784
I believe the boys and girls upstairs made a huge mistake showing their colors so early. As long as we don't fracture, this could be a huge positive lesson going forward. Too bad it has to be that way though
06-28-2015, 09:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 279
You can only kick a dog so many times before it turns around and bites you...
Fly your line
Fly your line
06-28-2015, 10:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Low paid Airbus gear slinger
Posts: 815
Originally Posted by falcon2000aj
You can only kick a dog so many times before it turns around and bites you...
Fly your line
Fly your line
06-28-2015, 11:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 479
Originally Posted by Rainbows
I'm hopping on the bandwagon too! Fly your line fly the contract, don't do anything outside of it. Don't accept the junior man, a little pain now will reap us benefits down the road. Stay strong!
Fly the CONTRACT
FLY SAFE
06-28-2015, 07:00 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Bus FO
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by RideandDrive
Their offer was DOS + 5 still less than Jetblue and you give up transition.
Stop enabling them and helping them.
Stop enabling them and helping them.
06-29-2015, 07:27 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 166
I copied this from a post by "Timbo" on the Delta TA thread. I hope he doesn't mind me posting it. Its an excellent take on a lot of things that apply to us at NK.
In my 30 years at Delta, I have seen 5 management teams and 8 contract negotiations. The only contract where we got a significant raise and retro active pay was in C2K, and that took 18 months of fighting with management, and a slogan, "Restore the Profession", and we did...for 4 years.
Good contracts do not come easily. They don't come quickly. If you want a truly historic contract you have to work hard to achieve it and you have to wait out management's BS, that they just cannot afford it. This TA actually makes money for management, not for us.
Right now, we have the best negotiating environment I have ever seen. When we did C2K, Delta had earned $1 Billion, which at the time, was a huge, never before seen profit. Last year, Delta earned $4.5 Billion. This year, Delta should earn about $6 Billion.
Our DB plan was underfunded by about $4 Billion when Delta gave it to the PBGC, and our pay cuts in 2005 were about $1.3 Billion. We are still 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and our retirement funding is tiny compared to what our DB plans were worth at the time, never mind what they would be worth going forward.
The company announced they are going to give $6 Billion to the shareholders, before they restore our sacrifices. They threw this piece of crap at us just for fun, to see if we are stupid enough to fall for a quick 8% raise, funded by concessions throughout the rest of the contract. I don't blame them for trying, but I do blame our MEC for buying into it.
We need to shoot this POS down now, and then we need to reorganize and formulate a new MEC, and a new strategy, because Proactive Appeasement has failed us, obviously, and we need to return to traditional negotiating strategy if we want to restore our profession, where Labor Risk is on the table, where it belongs.
So don't let yourself get all stressed out about this contract. But do tell your friends if they want a better contract, it's going to take a year or so, maybe more. Be patient. Don't stress out, get a puppy, or go fishing, or to the beach, just vote no and then sit back and wait. The sun will come up tomorrow and if Richard wants the Money Making Machine to keep minting billions, he's going to have to come back with a much, much better offer, or the operational performance will start to suffer, no doubt.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
In my 30 years at Delta, I have seen 5 management teams and 8 contract negotiations. The only contract where we got a significant raise and retro active pay was in C2K, and that took 18 months of fighting with management, and a slogan, "Restore the Profession", and we did...for 4 years.
Good contracts do not come easily. They don't come quickly. If you want a truly historic contract you have to work hard to achieve it and you have to wait out management's BS, that they just cannot afford it. This TA actually makes money for management, not for us.
Right now, we have the best negotiating environment I have ever seen. When we did C2K, Delta had earned $1 Billion, which at the time, was a huge, never before seen profit. Last year, Delta earned $4.5 Billion. This year, Delta should earn about $6 Billion.
Our DB plan was underfunded by about $4 Billion when Delta gave it to the PBGC, and our pay cuts in 2005 were about $1.3 Billion. We are still 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and our retirement funding is tiny compared to what our DB plans were worth at the time, never mind what they would be worth going forward.
The company announced they are going to give $6 Billion to the shareholders, before they restore our sacrifices. They threw this piece of crap at us just for fun, to see if we are stupid enough to fall for a quick 8% raise, funded by concessions throughout the rest of the contract. I don't blame them for trying, but I do blame our MEC for buying into it.
We need to shoot this POS down now, and then we need to reorganize and formulate a new MEC, and a new strategy, because Proactive Appeasement has failed us, obviously, and we need to return to traditional negotiating strategy if we want to restore our profession, where Labor Risk is on the table, where it belongs.
So don't let yourself get all stressed out about this contract. But do tell your friends if they want a better contract, it's going to take a year or so, maybe more. Be patient. Don't stress out, get a puppy, or go fishing, or to the beach, just vote no and then sit back and wait. The sun will come up tomorrow and if Richard wants the Money Making Machine to keep minting billions, he's going to have to come back with a much, much better offer, or the operational performance will start to suffer, no doubt.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
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