Spirit of NKS
01-15-2015 | 04:40 AM
#9541
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,385
Likes: 0
From: Airplane
I have no experience with PBS, but I see it this way:
Our scheduling availability is a cup, our schedule is the water. Management has a rough idea how big our cup is, but not an exact size. If our schedule (water) overflows we benefit through soft time.
In PBS, I imagine management knows exactly how big our cup is and will fill that cup right up to the brim, without a drop of water spilling.
If this is a bad analogy for PBS, I apologise.
Our scheduling availability is a cup, our schedule is the water. Management has a rough idea how big our cup is, but not an exact size. If our schedule (water) overflows we benefit through soft time.
In PBS, I imagine management knows exactly how big our cup is and will fill that cup right up to the brim, without a drop of water spilling.
If this is a bad analogy for PBS, I apologise.
01-15-2015 | 04:44 AM
#9542
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Plus if there was a bad spell with the company, a judge can easily take away pay rates more so than work rules.
01-15-2015 | 05:01 AM
#9543
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 33
A brief treatise on PBS:
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
Have you ever worked under PBS?
Man's concerns are very legitimate as this company appears to do everything on the cheap. Unfortunately we would end up with a very low end system and you cannot write enough into a contract to cover every situation. If you think you'll enjoy losing bidding seniority to the pbs gurus out bidding you, enjoy being unstacked on during the holidays and want to see a week of vacation be worth exactly a week, by all means vote/push for PBS. Fortunately I'm rather certain you'll be in the minority.
Now if the company wants to double every rate, we can talk. I'll be happy as a 2nd year fo at $144hr. At that rate I can afford to call in sick without pay, because many times that's what it takes to make your life palatable with PBS.
Cheers
01-15-2015 | 05:48 AM
#9545
Banned
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: B-767 FO
I have no experience with PBS, but I see it this way:
Our scheduling availability is a cup, our schedule is the water. Management has a rough idea how big our cup is, but not an exact size. If our schedule (water) overflows we benefit through soft time.
In PBS, I imagine management knows exactly how big our cup is and will fill that cup right up to the brim, without a drop of water spilling.
If this is a bad analogy for PBS, I apologise.
Our scheduling availability is a cup, our schedule is the water. Management has a rough idea how big our cup is, but not an exact size. If our schedule (water) overflows we benefit through soft time.
In PBS, I imagine management knows exactly how big our cup is and will fill that cup right up to the brim, without a drop of water spilling.
If this is a bad analogy for PBS, I apologise.
Last edited by FlyingOkra; 01-15-2015 at 06:08 AM.
01-15-2015 | 05:50 AM
#9546
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Why do people even keep bringing up the 4 days off going away? screw that, we keep 4 days off, shove PBS where the sun don't shine, SW rig/rates, et al. The company has been killing it since the IPO, making money hand over fist and we didn't get anything. No stock options, no profit sharing. Its our turn to reap the benefits of this Wall Street darling and don't give anything back!
01-15-2015 | 05:58 AM
#9547
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 0
I was just a matter of time before we had newer pilots trying to justified and sell PBS propaganda, just like the GREAT majority its a BIG NO. No matter how efficient they can make it look.
Like manflex says, cannot trust management with so much power.
Like manflex says, cannot trust management with so much power.
01-15-2015 | 06:19 AM
#9548
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: A320 F.O.
A brief treatise on PBS:
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
01-15-2015 | 06:23 AM
#9549
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Everything else people hate about pbs can be adjusted with work rules. However, the more work rules you get the less it affects staffing which means the less it is appealing to the company. But, no matter how many work rules you get with pbs there is still a staffing advantage with pbs and I'm not going voluntarily vote to change a three year upgrade to seven or to make the bottom of our list remain the plugs even while we take new airplanes.
01-15-2015 | 06:29 AM
#9550
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
From: A320 Left
Staffing is the number one reason I was against pbs at my last airline and would be against it here. If you've ever been furloughed by one class or been the top 10% in the right seat waiting to upgrade for years or the bottom 10% sitting reserve for years and worked under PBS during these times you can thank pbs for your lot in life.
Everything else people hate about pbs can be adjusted with work rules. However, the more work rules you get the less it affects staffing which means the less it is appealing to the company. But, no matter how many work rules you get with pbs there is still a staffing advantage with pbs and I'm not going voluntarily vote to change a three year upgrade to seven or to make the bottom of our list remain the plugs even while we take new airplanes.
Everything else people hate about pbs can be adjusted with work rules. However, the more work rules you get the less it affects staffing which means the less it is appealing to the company. But, no matter how many work rules you get with pbs there is still a staffing advantage with pbs and I'm not going voluntarily vote to change a three year upgrade to seven or to make the bottom of our list remain the plugs even while we take new airplanes.
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