Spirit of NKS
01-14-2015 | 05:04 PM
#9532
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 715
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From: A320 Left
They'll improve, but I wouldn't say 'greatly'. The APA is going to come up short of Delta and I'd say United's agreement is slightly below Delta's. It's hard to make significant gains when you're already #1 and DALPA considers 'restoration' a dirty word.
01-14-2015 | 05:33 PM
#9533
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: A320 Captain
4 days off would not be a concern if we had Southwests 6.5 hr per (calender) day minimum (no trip average). trip and duty rigs are where we need major work! No more 5 and 6 day trips, 3-4 day trip max. 13 days on at 6.5 = 84.5 hrs pay Minimum.
01-14-2015 | 06:08 PM
#9534
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,499
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Spirit of NKS
Can't speak for the entire package but united's pay rates are higher than delta's which makes sense considering its a newer deal. If what is reflected in apc is the full maturation of delta pay then united's rates are significantly higher
01-14-2015 | 06:11 PM
#9535
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Spirit of NKS
Amen! 4 days away, my wife misses me, at five days she gets sad, at six she gets ****ed at me but at 7 nights away because of uncommutable ends of trips she wants to murder me!
01-14-2015 | 06:15 PM
#9536
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco FO
To play devil's advocate, are you saying if you were a 15+ year Spirit captain you would accept a 9.7% raise (and future matching of Delta's pay raises), 6% extra retirement, about 8% profit sharing, and 5.5 hr daily guarantee in exchange for accepting pref bidding, eliminating transition conflicts, and giving away 4 days off?
Um, yeah. I've talked to and flown with a few senior guys who are ready to accept PBS. They know they'll end up on the top side of PBS, and they realize that demographics have changed.
Originally Posted by Frisco FO
To play devil's advocate, are you saying if you were a 15+ year Spirit captain you would accept a 9.7% raise (and future matching of Delta's pay raises), 6% extra retirement, about 8% profit sharing, and 5.5 hr daily guarantee in exchange for accepting pref bidding, eliminating transition conflicts, and giving away 4 days off?
Um, yeah. I've talked to and flown with a few senior guys who are ready to accept PBS. They know they'll end up on the top side of PBS, and they realize that demographics have changed.
01-14-2015 | 07:09 PM
#9539
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 637
Likes: 3
A brief treatise on PBS:
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
01-15-2015 | 04:25 AM
#9540
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
From: A320 Left
A brief treatise on PBS:
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
Fundamentally, it's about efficiency, right? We, as pilots, are largely against PBS because it will make us more productive. The company won't have to so often pay us to not work. "Work rules" largely means "ways we can trick/loophole the company out of wages." It's not efficient, and often favors those pilots in better position to take advantage of "the system." Because our per hour wages are so abysmally subpar, most of the pilot group relies on "work rules" to feed their family.
PBS takes advantage of modern scheduling technology and is fundamentally a more "healthy" way of operating an airline. Yes, it reduces staffing requirements.
The company is probably never going to be willing to accept the necessary compromise in wage increases to make PBS implementation palatable enough for the pilots to accept. However I, for one, would gladly accept PBS on condition of Alaska/Southwest hourly rates, and absolutely nothing less. At the end of the day I'd like my employer to be efficient and effectual, and I don't want my livelihood artificially propped up on my perpetual "working the system."
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