Originally Posted by Hedley

I’d argue that you’re wrong. Kirby wanted a LOA to fix his TK/LCA staffing problem but the union said no. He knows that a large percentage of TK instructors plan on going back to the line without significant raises. He knows that he needs more LCA’s than are currently signed up for the job. He has a massive expansion planned that depends on having the training infrastructure in place and ready to go. If we shoot him down, he’ll be back quickly. This isn’t a TA, it’s a glorified LOA to fix his training problem. We finally have leverage. We should use it, flush this turd, and tell Kirby that his expansion will require a real TA, not a glorified LOA.

Originally Posted by Mytime2025

As a long timer UAL pilot not sure I have ever fealt more ashamed to be associated with this weak MEC . The fact they voted unanimous for this dog **** deal is just emberassing. I'm a VERY hard NO. Need to be able look in the mirror and be proud of my vote. I'll let the others deal with their shame.

Originally Posted by VanillaNutTaps

I’m what some might call a “company man”, but I can’t vote yes. I’m willing to take a chance on something better. No thank you…try again.

Originally Posted by idlethrust

If this passes, UA pilots will be the laughing stock of the industry for years to come .
You have the co by the gonads , so don’t pull your shorts down and bend over for the next 3 years .

Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot

I don’t like it one bit. But given the current economic situation with a recession on the horizon, probably a long and deep one, getting anything is a win. People are saying that it barely beats inflation, but no pay raises is much worse with current inflation.

I’ll take the bird in the hand strictly based on the last 2 years economic condition of the company and the forward looking economic situation. Plus its only a 2 year deal so we restart negotiations hopefully right as the economy improves, Delta and American get some pay raises and the company has been profitable for a while.

Also getting something is a step and makes it easier to get our next step up, instead of trying to get it all in one shot in 3-4 years while having given up pay raises we would have had but turned down. 15% raises at the onset of an inflation for a company that has lost Billions in the last 2 years is something to think about.

I would like to vote no out of anger or spite, but it doesn’t gain us anything.

Originally Posted by AxlF16

I'm not so sure about the bolded part. If we vote this down they have to know what part(s) need to be changed in order to pass. We have to know what to ASK for....and so far it looks like the TA needs a major overhaul....not just more money.

We need to ask the Negotiating Committee how close they feel they came to achieving their goals. If they think they met their goals.....then the MEC needs to provide new direction and we need a new NC. That will all take time. Lots of time. OTOH if they feel they came up short in the areas that are causing opposition then it won't take much time to re-engage the company. This is all BEFORE dealing with company pushback.

Does anyone have an idea of how close the NC feels they came to meeting their goals?

Originally Posted by DashTrash

I am in no way saying that I’m voting yes or no because I honestly am torn. But if we do vote this down, we have to be prepared for what happens next. There will be no quick second offer by the Company. That’s not how this works. If we vote this down, it will be at least 6-9 months before we get back to the table.

After this fails ratification, the MEC and NC will do a post mortem and there’s the possibility of recalls if it fails badly enough. Then another contract survey will be sent out to the membership. Then once we have a NC and direction we can finally engage with the Company, if they want to. If we’re in a recession, we will be negotiating for a while. So if we vote no, there is no complaining!!! We accept our medicine!!!

Originally Posted by Hedley

By quickly, I mean 6 months or so. Since the last time we polled the pilots we’ve had a pandemic, displacements, early outs, massive hiring, and record inflation. The guidance they had several years ago is extremely outdated. I’d rather flush this turd, poll the pilots to see where we stand in this environment, and get to work. Kirby NEEDS a deal to staff the training department for his planned expansion. We WANT a new contract because we’re due. We might not like it, but we can wait a little longer for the right contract, where he needs to get a deal in place. All he wants to do is to staff the training department. This TA just let’s him do it cheap. Basically, the union told him no more LOA’s, and then turned around and signs off on what is basically just an LOA to staff the training department.

Originally Posted by AxlF16

I'm not so sure about the bolded part. If we vote this down they have to know what part(s) need to be changed in order to pass. We have to know what to ASK for....and so far it looks like the TA needs a major overhaul....not just more money.

We need to ask the Negotiating Committee how close they feel they came to achieving their goals. If they think they met their goals.....then the MEC needs to provide new direction and we need a new NC. That will all take time. Lots of time. OTOH if they feel they came up short in the areas that are causing opposition then it won't take much time to re-engage the company. This is all BEFORE dealing with company pushback.

Does anyone have an idea of how close the NC feels they came to meeting their goals?