Trying to read the tea leaves is never a good use of time. Though I admit I attempted many times while waiting for the call. Unfortunately even those currently working on property won't generally have a good indication of this as it doesn't look like any of us are really privy to the process really.

The best advice I would give is keep updating, applying not just for United but every airline/cargo carrier, making sure your app is clean, and when able looking for opportunities to add to your application (upgrades to elevator, chief pilot, director of operations etc etc.)

The point system used is always a moving target ... the guys who didn’t get the invite last time around could def get it going forward ... what was the average resume when I got hired prob isn’t today . Thr averages change .

Don’t let this distract you from your goal .... of United is what you want , get back to a job fair and show that to a recruiter .

Best of luck .

Job Fairs, Nepotism, Conjured Algorithms, more Job Fairs, and Fear Tactics instilled in every move you make. Can we admit amongst ourselves, at least, that the hiring practices of legacy carriers have gotten out of hand? Dare I say, rigged?

Maybe, but if you want the job, you have to play the game.

It’s the Golden Rule:

“They’ve got the gold, so you have to play by their rules.”

The point behind my question was to simply shed light on what many perceive to be flawed hiring practices. The power to change ‘The Game’ and how it’s played lies within and can only be changed as such. Maybe integrity in hiring should be the new Golden Rule because what we have now is a big sham.

I’ve seen too many good and very qualified pilots not get their fair shot. And yes, I know, life isn’t fair either.

I’ve seen guys who’ve never attended a single job fair get an interview, and subsequently - a job offer. By the same token, pilots with good experience and education, who’ve attended several job fairs, have yet to hear something. Anyone can concede that this is all a ‘game’ but few have the courage to change it for the better once they make it in. In the meantime, we’ll resume our cog-like culture while HR brandishes their overreaching power in deciding the fate of several exceptional applicants.

Maybe, or maybe their hiring practices are completely ethical and above board but we just don’t see the inner workings. Perhaps instead these folks that you perceive as solid top-notched aviators actually have something in their background that precludes them from getting hired, or just aren’t what the airlines are looking for when compared to the folks that DID get hired (spoiler alert, it ain’t all about flight hours). I understand people’s frustration, but in every other industry where there is even the slightest competition for employment, the onus is on the candidate to market themselves and get themself hired, not the employer to seek them out. Fact is, the “pilot shortage” still hasn’t hit the legacies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

no

filler

It is easy for me to criticize this being on the inside now, but honestly those that don't get a call or hired usually from what I've seen something contributed to it. You may be the best candidate the world has ever seen but you have a trivial error on your application that is negatively effecting it. Perhaps those people who you think you know have skeletons in their closet that they have not been open about to you for one reason or another. Then there is the personality test, if accomplished poorly then simply you do not pass go. Again you could be the best dude/gal ever but if you trip up on any of the 100 steps up to that point then it can be a problem. Finally the interview. Again your the best thing since sliced bread, but the stress of the multiple years of work leading up to this singular point overwhelms and for whatever reason you perform poorly or fail to gel with your HR panel, make a glaring error on your technical assessment etc.

My long winded point is the system is designed for attempting to weed out of a mountain of applicants (there still are plenty no matter what pilot shortage you believe in) into what company A, B, or C is looking for and hopefully set those individuals up for success.

Having the most hours from what I've seen is not the ruler by which you need use. You need to look at yourself, and your situation and see if you have been pursuing greater responsibility and involvement in your own situation. So if your a left seat captain at regional x with 1 billion hours, but you've not upgraded Aircraft in a decade, or pursued Chief Pilot, Line Check Airmen etc then you may be harming yourself.

Regardless of your plan once you get hired at a major their goal is to hire their next crop which will define their culture for the next 20+ years.

So I am sorry but the system like any has its flaws but it is by no means rigged against good pilots or applicants. Good ones get through. Except perhaps in my case ;)

I wholeheartedly agree with your points. We can both agree that the system is imperfect and sometimes even blind to good candidates based on airline app errors or skeletons in the closet. I think you hit the nail on the head.

The good ones, such as yourself and others, do get through, but it’s the ones that never get the call that I take issue with. The system is inconsistent.

We can agree that the process from start to finish is designed to vet as many as possible; thus leaving the few selected to define the culture for the next 20 years. So rather than sounding like some bitter dude on the message board, I offer the following suggestions that will probably never come into fruition.

- The application system should be changed to a proprierty one. Hence, it should be free to all applicants and company run.
- The Hogan test should be scrapped, as it is far from scientific.
- Job Fairs at United should be by invitation only and alignments with special interest (for profit groups i.e. consulting) should be abolished.
- Nepotism should be more tightly regulated but I fear it is not. I know it isn’t.
- The application process should be able to provide some indication that it is under review or no longer being considered –no reason required.
- Come up with realistic and hard requirements i.e. no longer using the phrase preferred. This will ensure that top tier candidates are the only ones being considered instead of a diluted pool of less experienced pilots who meet only the bear minimums.
- Lastly, involve more pilots in the recruiting process. I know they exist but some career events are easier understood and received from one pilot to another.

Sorry for the long post but I know I’m not alone in this.

I second this! Well said.

Got my hopes up. Thought people were posting about the job fair. Still a few of us stragglers out there.

Just wondering....Are you saying that there are many pilots who are pursuing a career in aviation that are never going to be a good candidate?

I would tend to think that in a pilot shortage - pilots will find work?? Otherwise, planes won't fly themselves.

Some of us guys with actual experience are sick of hearing that horse $hit...so....don’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think integrity in hiring practices is what they want. While I agree with you, the power that be seem content let HR do it's thing. Reverse discrimination, whatever you want to call it is still hurtful to the profession.

The goal should really be to rebuild the profession. It's still not recovered from the strikes/scabs, and the after effects of 9-11 and the lost decade.

If they want to encourage investment in the profession to have a pool of well qualified pilots to choose from then maybe integrity would be a strong beacon that attracts pilots and potential pilots. No one wants to spend 75K on their career and see their career job being given to a lesser qualified candidate.

Wrong.

Filler.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s not reverse discrimination, it’s discrimination. Discriminating against a white person is the same as discriminating against a person of any other race.
Before I left for another job, I was a hiring manager for at&t. We were directed who to interview based on how ranked the applicants. The majority of an applicant’s ranking pertained to how they answered the demographic questions. I was once hiring an assistant store manager and had to go through ten applicants before I found one who had management and sales experience. So it was a waste of time filtering through applicants who were ranked high because of their demographics, but had no management or sales experience.

Didn't mean to divert the discussion away from the main topic of 'Job Expo' but I strongly felt that something had to be said and effectively changed with these hiring practices. United is by no means alone in this. Those on the inside should gather the courage to change some aspects of these flawed hiring practices (but only after probation:-)

Your post reminds me of one point I forgot to add to my own:

- Race, ethnicity, and gender questions should also be taken off the app. I know the option to 'not disclose' is there but we all know that it is part of the 'conjured algorithm'.

Sometimes in an effort to become the most inclusive and diverse company (mostly for marketing purposes) a company will end up hiring far less experienced candidates over the more qualified ones. This is why my suggestions wouldn't work at a place like United because it would not allow for discrmination of any kind. I'm sure someone will misconstrue my point...

As an employee, we don't set hiring practices. The company does. You can complain all you want to, but it won't change the fact that it's their game. those with actual experience, and play the game have the job. Those that don't do either, don't.

Hey man, what’s goin on? I remember you tryin to get piccked up by UAL a few yrs ago. Completely forgot about it. What’s the current status?

Looks like there has been an update to the addendum. Would being invited to the expo count as beginning the pilot selection process?

Thanks!

Good question.

I would assume no since, the hogan invite comes with an email stating something to the effect of "welcome to the pilot selection process." The job fair didn't state anything like that right.

I talked to Sr Hiring Manager about your question. She stated being invited to the process means we send them the Hogan. Being invited to the Hiring Expo does not count.

If anyone else has another question please post them and I will see what I can find out.

Any ideas if Hogan’s are still going out to people from September job fair? Or at this point do we assume we weren’t “successful”?

I did have a client interview last week from the September job fair. I would say he was one of the last ones but you never know.

So, who exactly is getting hired with "far less" qualifications here? And, what group is facing discrimination when it comes to United Hiring pilots?

My regional sent twin sisters with 2000 TT about a month ago. I guess their dad who’s a pilot knows someone.

Almost everyone I know that’s been hired with “less than average” quals has been a young women

With your connection to the inside scoop, any info on what "civilian" quals trigger the app to be pulled? TT 6k+? 8k+?, jet PIC 4k+?, DO, CP, etc?....or is it more favorable to the diversity, career fair, military, internal rec, prior121 boxes being checked.....?

That's pretty typical. Expect young females and others checking the diversity box with lower credentials to get hired before a white male with double the flight time and experience.

I have seen at least 2 pilots with less than what I would consider "competitive flight time and experience" be hired at UAL. Those two pilots were low on experience but high on diversity. Other groups not in the diversity column were discriminated upon. You can pick the genre or fill in the blank. No one cares any more. It's all talk...blah blah blah.

What are you going to expect from a company that was brought to its knees by a 5 foot man with a criminal history.

I keep hearing integrity is a big deal. I guess I would expect that. That's what the company expects from its pilots. two way street no?

I'll toss this question in this thread...
the new question on the app...

I said "yes" and added my flight attendant position...any comments?
It does say "any position with either Continental or United".

just checking with the crowd here.

They invited the top 1% of their application stack, then turned their backs on some of them by hiring people less qualified. Meanwhile, their CEO steals sand and a little asian man causes them to loose 10% of their market cap in a single day.

Oh dear god no. :confused: :rolleyes:

If you love United so much why are you posting here. Go away.

And, we've hired pilot's who aren't "diverse" who fit that description as well, PLENTY of them according to my friends on the hiring board. So do they get the same criticism from you or not?

Diversity is neither the point nor the argument. I love diverse cities, companies, and consider myself to be diverse, as well. We are a diverse nation, after all –a nation of immigrants.

Here is the point in case some of you missed it:

Flight Time Requirements (but not for you)
• A minimum of 1,500 hours of total time
• A minimum of 1,000 hours of fixed wing turbine time
• A minimum of 100 hours of complex flight time within the last 12 months

These requirements by their very nature were designed to get those who really couldn’t get hired otherwise to slip through that little crack in the door that is open to the chosen few. Whether those are members of family or a special interest group that can be used in their new marketing maneuver is entirely up to United HR to make the call.

The bottom line is that their algorithm is discriminatory but not in the way of experience or education or anything else. It’s discriminatory because too often it overlooks perfectly eligible candidates in favor of less experienced ones by the stroke of a button; hence, a supposed algorithm is overrode once again by a fallible human-)

So next time you talk to a consulting firm or anyone purvey to The Game, and you share your experience, expect suggestions of: more Job Fairs, more leadership in your resume, more volunteer work, maybe a different company, more PIC Turbine, more flight time in the last year….etc. All the while, an individual with no PIC Turbine (0) and fewer than 3000 hours is sitting in initial after having attended zero job fairs.

No amount of validation, company pride or whatever else we can conjure up will justify these hiring practices to me. We all see how incredibly corrupt it really is and I only hope for the sake of future candidates that something changes.