Lear,

I don’t fully disagree with your feelings about the importance of PIC time. But we should all have a few current or former co-workers that occupy the left seat that are weak pilots. PIC time is great and all, but it does not necessarily mean he/she is going to be a better all around pilot than those pilots without 121 PIC time.

I know plenty of pilots (guys and girls) hired at Ual and Dal who were line FOs and nothing more, no committees, connections or any extracurricular activities. They were just diligent in their job search and seem to have the personality that fits the culture.

It likely already has backfired.

1. It upsets the normal progression of upgrade and promotion in the profession at large. No need to poach co-pilots when plenty of experienced Captains available who paid their dues. Not unlike an attorney making partner, or a patrolman making sergeant.

2. Without having an opportunity to learn as a new Captain or Aircraft Commander it short-changes the pilot and his/her crew experience. It short circuits the learning process.

3. It provides a level of professionalism, a degree of credibility and a depth and breadth of knowledge that cannot be simulated.

4. The regional that hired the pilot as a co-pilot would likely want a return on their investment. Makes quite logical sense to upgrade at your regional if given the opportunity and give your employer a return on their investment. loyalty rewarded works both ways.

if someone upgraded to Captain at a 121 airline then that gets my attention. Why? That person had to pass a Captain ride and have an FAA ride. That process in and of itself weeds out allot of weak pilots. PIC time is two things: making decisions and airmanship. Leadership is built into the making decisions part of the equation. The best predictor of future performance is past performance. if a pilot upgraded to Captain, and has a good record in that role, than the best predictor of future performance in that role is already documented and a known quantity. fewer variables equates to less risk. It's a win-win for the applicant, the prospective airline and the profession at large. No brainer really.

Former LEC and MEC Chairman...didn’t UAL fire one of those types on probation recently? Advice to new hires. Color within the lines for a minimum of 12 months. Ex LEC and MEC members may not be the best example. If they are like most UAL MEC and LEC members they don’t make a good case for people you want to hire.

And yet you are a captain and can’t spell “ a lot”.

If you're a 121 FO you are supposed to be at a disadvantage. it's called waiting your turn while you gain CA experience. it's called career progression.

No more side saddle as an engineer, so this is awesome. Everyone flies and everyone moves up the ladder.


No need to "show career growth" unless that growth equates to upgrading. That's the kind of career growth pilots care about. Now, HR golf shirt and khaki slacks type people may have a different opinion.....

There in lies the rub within the rub.

No need to keep that stuff "pretty secret" if we're all above board and all.

can't hire the best of the best when we are playing games..... Can't really hide behind "it's pretty secret." I don't think it's proprietary to lead the industry world wide in hiring females and minorities and slip in a few well connected peeps and family members. We should just be open and honest about what's going on that way it's at least semi-believable.

Nothing proprietary about hiring good pilots with a clean record and ample time in the left seat making decisions and taking care of their crew and their passengers.

proprietary is Col Sanders secret recipe. I get it, if that gets out everyone can have finger licking good chicken and KFC would be out of business.

you care about that stuff?

Actually I can spell it. Just wanted to see if we could get a good co-pilot to spot my mistake.

Regionals also send a few captains back to the right seat and it happens more than people assume. Being a captain with a decent amount of time behind you is definitely in the positive column.

Holy crap man, you're taking that WAY BACK!!!

Sorry slappy but I’m a captain. Just a bit of irony about you being on your usual soap box and yet looking like an illiterate at the same time. At least on the positive side you are consistent so you have that much going for you, which is nice.

Only when someone is claiming superiority. Otherwise, no. But baseball bat is a bit thick.

I didn't read a bit of superiority as you put it.

What I read is a fella who is tired of all the politically correct mumbo jumbo that is getting passed off as United Airlines Superiority in their hiring practices and convincing everyone that they got some sort of patent on hiring.

Superiority?

No, I don't think so.

Tired of all the craptastic pc people celebrating fake diversity and so on....just to pad the logbook.

I for one think it should be mandatory for all applicants to be Captain Qualified, or the military equivalent before hiring on at a major airline. 121 or 135 is fine with me.

If you think the statement above wreaks of superiority than so be it. my opinion of the issue is unwavering and I am steadfast in my beliefs and I will defend this position vehemently. Nothing superior about being strident.

Apparently UAL is strident in their beliefs that they should hire flight instructors in college? I wonder what happened to that brilliant program?

illiterate refers to someone who can't read or write. Evidently you read what I wrote without difficulty. Illiterate? I guess you don't know what the word actually means... Perhaps you are looking for a word that infers the connotation that I used a correctly spelled word in the wrong context. illiterate? Nah.... Fast typer? Yep. Back at you slappy.

Don’t know who u r talking about, but was that person never a Captain? As to your second issue (most lec and mec members) highly disagree!

The flak only gets heavy when you are over the target:-)...as they say.

Hey listen, I’m glad you are firmly on the inside with a full report on recent hiring trends and performance reviews. There is really no reason for me to repeat myself to the point of sounding redundant. Nepotism, as defined by you, can not be made right whether that number is 12,000 or 100 because less qualified applicants are still bypassing guys/gals with far greater expertise.

Would you agree that time is one of the most precious commodities we have as professionals aviators? If the answer is yes, then I think you would also agree that a 25 year old sitting in the right seat of a 320 is far less deserving than that of a regional or corporate pilot in his/her 40s striving for the same objective. This is by design, of course. Company culture building, future planning, and all that HR jazz which sounds real good on wide platform presentations.

Once again, I think highly of United as an airline and its pilots so please refrain from taking offense to my posts if they hit home ..it’s not personal - it’s the truth. And no, I’m not bitter. 90% of pilots applying to any one legacy have their apps/interview with the other two, as well. Options are good:-)

I’ve seen pilots with thousands of hours that are bad pilots. Hours is but one factor.

I think that your issue may be that you are opinionated and perhaps you have expressed your displeasure about UAL hiring to someone that poisoned penned you. Someone that was able to piece together who you are or someone you spoke to that works for UAL might have quietly sent a negative letter in regards to your application.

I have heard of UAX pilots that have created so many issues in the operation that they were tagged as “never hire” at UAL.

Agree with your last sentence and heard of this happening in other places, too.
As far as someone whose agenda is out to get me, for whatever reason, I hope they lay their ‘poison pen’ down and not waste their time. I’m just a regular Joe.

I’d rather engage a person with strong opinions, even opposing ones, then talk to a person whose mind I have to try and read))) everything else is speculative.

Reverse nepotism
 

Delta used to have an unusual policy: if any of your relatives was already on the payroll, you were ineligible for hiring. (One pilot was forced to retire at age 59 so that his son could start class.) That rule was abolished in the mid-80s, IIRC.

Emails out from United saying gets apps cleaned up and ready. Invites go out in July for September 10th and 11th expo days.

Don't have to reach that far back. Laz just got his kid hired.

I think in an odd way you made a good point. It's not HOURS. Hopefully those that are doing the interviewing get that. It's a combination of quality experience (which is a factor of time in the seat and years in the profession), and decision-making.

The more time in the left seat equates to more opportunities to make both good and bad decisions. Accountability, responsibility, emergencies, irregular operations, charters, etc. All of that Captain - left seat time adds up to opportunities to succeed and fail. learn and get better.

We truly want CAPTAINS who have been CAPTAINS, and who can relate to and respond to the role of Captain.

No need in hiring FO's from the regionals who haven't upgraded and had an opportunity to better themselves as professional pilots.

Let the process work. Let maturity and matriculation occur. Let them get better. Let them be MORE READY for a major airline when the call comes.

The country club casual people in HR (not only in our HR but others) will never understand this.

Bonus: When it's time for them to upgrade, that process will be much smoother.

Most FO's are better pilots than Captains. Their scan is tighter and reflexes a bit quicker. It's not about hiring better pilots. It's about hiring the experience that only comes from experienced pilots. We could pay X for a new hire regional FO, or we could pay X for a Captain qualified pilot who has paid his/her dues and who is ready for the next logical step in the profession.

Makes sense to hire the Captain qualified pilot who has a proven track record of safe operations and who has passed a few more check rides and who has had to prove themselves competent leaders and qualified airman. Civilian or military equivalent works for me.

Baseball,

Have you contacted any of the managers in the new hire department with your thoughts on how they hire? I’d love to know how they would respond to something like what you wrote above.

Best of luck to anyone attending the September Job Expo. I have a feeling that this process of hiring will evolve over time to a level of professionalism and fairness we’ve all come to expect. I also hope that you’ll all have a chance to actually voice the reasons of why you want to work for United as opposed to listening to your recruiter list the reasons for you.... (for the majority of your 15 minutes of fame)

Seriously, I wish everyone the utmost success.

I actually appreciated their sales pitch to me on why I should choose United. It showed me that they knew we were a valuable commodity and didn't want to waste time me explaining reasons that while may hold true for me don't mean much in the long run in why United. We can all spin a tale why X Y or Z company but in the end hopefully it's not the main reason why we were hired.

The 2002-2012 period created a lot of 10+ year FOs with all kinds of turboprop and jet/CRM experience. Upgrading after 10-15 combined years in the FO seat isn't going to backfire on a United jet any more than it would if it were a military hire with zero transport category, crew time.

Hello,
Do United pilots get to recommend or submit candidates names for consideration for this event?

I’m not exactly in the know but from my understanding there is no recommendation system at United other than sending someone a rec on airlineapps.

Look, I'm not involved in hiring at United in any way. But if you talk to anybody that is and press for details you will quickly find there's a limit to what they will tell you. Generic information like upgrading, becoming a LCA/IP/evaluator, sure. Anybody can figure out that it helps. But how they weigh certain qualifications over others? That's absolutely proprietary and should be in my opinion. Otherwise you'd see pilots just doing whatever it took to get the highest point totals.

United wants to hire future leaders of the company. It's pretty obvious that you can have the right leadership abilities and qualifications WITHOUT having had a chance to upgrade. There are plenty of FOs that are in the right seat that are absolutely going to be great Captains when they get the chance. I'm glad that United is spending the effort to find them.

Well, why wouldn’t mainline just scoop them up after they make it to regional captain? Let these FOs become the great captains they are destined to become as you say, and naturally in the process, teach their future FOs behind them to be great captains as well. What benefit is their in “spending effort to find them”? Seems to me, it’s just short-sighted IMHO.


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Does it sound like last year attendees will have a better or worse chance this time around?

Question is more how many from last year didn’t get a invite and would this warrant a invite this year. You’d think we’d have a good chance based on score unless blacklisted because it didn’t go well

Question I'd ask is what have you done between now and last year that if you did get an invite will make you stand out for an interview that your resume did not last year?

Good luck to everyone 🤞😙

400+ more hours PIC/LCA
3 more recs (1 internal)
2 app reviews
3 volunteer projects
1 FAA nastigram cleared and closed out

I’m ready United!:D

400 hours since sept! Thats it?

You mean why so much flying since September? This is a United forum, 400 hours since September is hard work!

Averaging 97 hours a month puts me at 700 hours pic/ioe since end sept ;)

With 4000 hours of pic already it helps but I’m well past the 1000 hours holy grail.

You’re grinding it out for sure! Are you here or trying to get on?