^^^^^🤮 ^^^^^

 

Meh. The seniority system is a pyramid scheme. Senior people need junior people underneath them to soak up bad Bases, days of the week, holidays, small airplanes, undesirable locations etc. if not for junior people who agree to the system, what do you think the quality of life of senior people would look like? hint: that is what a NO vote may get a 2000 hire. The privilege of being a new hire at United Airlines again

as a new hire you agree to do the same job for less pay, less vacation, etc. with the promise that you will get to be the top dog someday. Like many systems, it probably evolved because it made the most sense given the circumstances. If you conflate your relative position on the seniority list with anything other than luck and timing, you are Inserting merit/deserving into a completely non capitalistic/market-based system

 

i respectfully disagree. I as a new hire you agreed to do the FO's job until you could hold Captain. ie, you agreed to work your way up and pay your dues. You saw the contract, and how it paid, how it awarded vacation, etc. I don't recall agreeing to do the same job for less pay and less vacation as you worded it. I know for me I agreed to wait my turn until my seniority number was called. I had it explained to me in this way:

The career is back-loaded. It is not front loaded. If you want the rewards you gotta wait for them.

I think they call it delayed or deferred gratification.

Now, what is a pyramid scheme is PBS. That erodes seniority. As long as it exists it is a company monetary give. Pilots complain how they notice vacation doesn't pay like it used to, etc. That's a component of PBS. PBS robs from the senior and gives to the junior. Much like this TA does.

 

You will make a great management pilot...

 

Exactly. Socialism sucks. Anyone with half a brain realizes the pitfalls associated with this career the moment they pursue it. Asking senior people to take monetary hits knowing the time limited nature of the job is beyond ridiculous. This LOA achieves essentially nothing. The company will furlough more than the 2007 so the whole thing eventually fixes itself by next Summer.

 

Not everyone at this airline paid their dues equally. Some were given seniority without actually earning it. There are plenty of pilots that are older and have been around a lot longer (like 8 years or so) than many of those senior to them.

 

Respect is earned not awarded with age or seniority. Tolerance and remaining professional with certain elder, senior, or any other number of folks that crave recognition is what you’re talking about. The ability to tolerate a person’s insane rhetoric and constant invented grievances to help rationalize why their life/situation/personal finances aren’t where they wanted them is a hallmark skill of anyone that’s been in this for long.

Anyway, we can put this behind us soon. The War on Christmas chat is nearly here! Who’s excited??

 

Given seniority ? no room to say that and I am sure I am more senior to you

well, here are some facts for you:

the interns with 200hrs
and the 570s that were hired for a reason and not based on their qualifications
What is your opinion about those groups ?

 

If you’re actually interested in facts, here’s one... it is a fact that there are many pilots in our ranks that are senior to (and often much younger than) pilots that were hired nearly a decade before them. Therefore, their seniority wasn’t earned as much as it was given to them.

 

I think the bottom line, which is a little surprising to hear defended from this anti-socialism crowd, is that DOH seniority systems ensure that those who are on top (higher pay rates, better trips, better A/C, etc) have nothing to do with merit. Even the most “right” leaning philosophers will tell you that rigid hierarchies without correlation to ability usually devolve into dysfunctional systems (J Peterson et al).

nobody is begrudging senior pilots better trips, choice of equipment/base, higher pay rate etc. the system is fine and largely works great, just don’t try say it’s because they “deserve” it. They aren’t undeserving either… It’s just a way a seniority system works. The second you start ascribing some semblance of merit to simply existing somewhere longer than someone else, that starts to get hierarchal in a very unproductive way.