United diversity.......
06-04-2021, 04:58 AM
#731
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Trying not to crash
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy
This is such a weird thing to say. You literally have never met the person you’re talking to. And yet you have summed them up so completely that you have determined they don’t even deserve the job for which they have been hired by the same hiring department you put so much faith into.
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06-04-2021, 05:20 AM
#732
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,352
Originally Posted by detpilot
Of course, that accident would never have happened if the check airman was a man. Woman makes a mistake, she's under qualified. You make a mistake, then every excuse in the book applies. Again, this thread is a great example of the reason this program is needed. I can only hope that people who think like you are being removed from the hiring process.
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06-04-2021, 05:35 AM
#733
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by detpilot
Of course, that accident would never have happened if the check airman was a man. Woman makes a mistake, she's under qualified. You make a mistake, then every excuse in the book applies. Again, this thread is a great example of the reason this program is needed. I can only hope that people who think like you are being removed from the hiring process.
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Hire the most qualified person (woman or man) or whatever the gender flavor is of the day.
according to many folks/persons that have flown with her….she was under qualified.
Hire the most qualified “person” for the job. It’s that simple.
same thing applies to the atlas crash. We lost a new hire with great potential because of diversity.
I hope people like you are not part of any hiring process, but sadly it seems as though they are.
06-04-2021, 06:21 AM
#734
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Trying not to crash
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by Bestglide
that accident would never have happened if they hired the rite person in that position and not filled it with a quota.
Hire the most qualified person (woman or man) or whatever the gender flavor is of the day.
according to many folks/persons that have flown with her….she was under qualified.
Hire the most qualified “person” for the job. It’s that simple.
same thing applies to the atlas crash. We lost a new hire with great potential because of diversity.
I hope people like you are not part of any hiring process, but sadly it seems as though they are.
Hire the most qualified person (woman or man) or whatever the gender flavor is of the day.
according to many folks/persons that have flown with her….she was under qualified.
Hire the most qualified “person” for the job. It’s that simple.
same thing applies to the atlas crash. We lost a new hire with great potential because of diversity.
I hope people like you are not part of any hiring process, but sadly it seems as though they are.
We lost a new hire due to a crappy pilot and a poor training department, backed up by a poor management who failed to remove said pilot from a position where he could hurt others.
Look at his records... If he was hired at United, regardless of his demographics, and failed THAT many events... It would be a massive failure on the part of our management and training department. Whether he was black, white, woman, or man. No one is able to skip a short cycle here because they are a minority... The standards are the standards.
That Newark check airman met the standards. Unless you're telling me she only got hired into that position because she's a woman... Which is offensive to her, to other women who've worked hard to earn their check airman letter, and to the women who are not check airmen and desire to become one.
Since somehow her sex "made" United hire an unqualified pilot as a LCA... Why aren't all women check airmen? Why aren't all check airmen women? It's illogical and offensive, but a pervasive disease that I'm glad is being slowly rooted out.
To recapitulate... Because someone is a minority, does not mean they didn't meet the standards. Because someone has an accident, does not mean they were unqualified. Even if they were a minority. If someone, of any demographic, is hired into a position they didn't earn or deserve (multiple checkride failures, etc), then that is a failure of management and not "diversity."
These notions are prevalent in our profession, and very hurtful to the minorities who bust their butts every day to be the best they can be.
Imagine... Showing up to work knowing that if you make a mistake or have an accident or incident, the same colleagues who "Don't see color" will suddenly have lots to say about whether you deserved to be on your position in the first place.
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06-04-2021, 06:46 AM
#735
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
I'd be willing to gamble the deed to my condo that more bent metal or other serious accidents have been caused by unqualified WHITE MALES since the beginning of aviation than any other demographic. I could be wrong, but doubt it. *TONGUE IN CHEEK*
Now, were all these white male pilots really unqualified? Most certainly not. Are all accidents a chain of events that if broken would never have happened? Absolutely. We have gone from the hardware being the cause of most accidents to human factors being the #1 driver of incidents/accidents.
Historically there have been mostly white males as pilots. Why? Women and minorities were not given access to the same opportunities as white men. Not allowed to fly in the military or even serve at times. Not to mention the other barriers to entering this field that are socio-economic in nature. That is changing and United is a corporation advancing with the times. They are also legally responsible for the decisions that put pilots in the flight decks of hundred million dollar plus airplanes carrying hundreds of customers. The FAA and insurers have a say as well.
The unqualified argument is a load of **** and insulting to every person hired here who some don't view as fitting the traditional mold or saying this is different than how it's been for many years. Yes, you can read into that how that argument is being used in other segments of life, especially now.
Now, were all these white male pilots really unqualified? Most certainly not. Are all accidents a chain of events that if broken would never have happened? Absolutely. We have gone from the hardware being the cause of most accidents to human factors being the #1 driver of incidents/accidents.
Historically there have been mostly white males as pilots. Why? Women and minorities were not given access to the same opportunities as white men. Not allowed to fly in the military or even serve at times. Not to mention the other barriers to entering this field that are socio-economic in nature. That is changing and United is a corporation advancing with the times. They are also legally responsible for the decisions that put pilots in the flight decks of hundred million dollar plus airplanes carrying hundreds of customers. The FAA and insurers have a say as well.
The unqualified argument is a load of **** and insulting to every person hired here who some don't view as fitting the traditional mold or saying this is different than how it's been for many years. Yes, you can read into that how that argument is being used in other segments of life, especially now.
06-04-2021, 07:55 AM
#736
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy
This is such a weird thing to say. You literally have never met the person you’re talking to. And yet you have summed them up so completely that you have determined they don’t even deserve the job for which they have been hired by the same hiring department you put so much faith into.
That’s what these people do, they cancel you. Whether it’s banning you from Facebook or advocating you don’t be hired. These people preach and beat off to diversity yet can’t stand an opposing non woke opinion. They are hypocrites and utilize the same tactics as Marxists. Let’s be honest, United doesn’t care about diversity (they care about $$), they are just too scared about not being woke enough.
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06-04-2021, 07:59 AM
#737
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Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by detpilot
We did not lose a new hire due to diversity. That is very offensive...
We lost a new hire due to a crappy pilot and a poor training department, backed up by a poor management who failed to remove said pilot from a position where he could hurt others.
Look at his records... If he was hired at United, regardless of his demographics, and failed THAT many events... It would be a massive failure on the part of our management and training department. Whether he was black, white, woman, or man. No one is able to skip a short cycle here because they are a minority... The standards are the standards.
That Newark check airman met the standards. Unless you're telling me she only got hired into that position because she's a woman... Which is offensive to her, to other women who've worked hard to earn their check airman letter, and to the women who are not check airmen and desire to become one.
Since somehow her sex "made" United hire an unqualified pilot as a LCA... Why aren't all women check airmen? Why aren't all check airmen women? It's illogical and offensive, but a pervasive disease that I'm glad is being slowly rooted out.
To recapitulate... Because someone is a minority, does not mean they didn't meet the standards. Because someone has an accident, does not mean they were unqualified. Even if they were a minority. If someone, of any demographic, is hired into a position they didn't earn or deserve (multiple checkride failures, etc), then that is a failure of management and not "diversity."
These notions are prevalent in our profession, and very hurtful to the minorities who bust their butts every day to be the best they can be.
Imagine... Showing up to work knowing that if you make a mistake or have an accident or incident, the same colleagues who "Don't see color" will suddenly have lots to say about whether you deserved to be on your position in the first place.
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We lost a new hire due to a crappy pilot and a poor training department, backed up by a poor management who failed to remove said pilot from a position where he could hurt others.
Look at his records... If he was hired at United, regardless of his demographics, and failed THAT many events... It would be a massive failure on the part of our management and training department. Whether he was black, white, woman, or man. No one is able to skip a short cycle here because they are a minority... The standards are the standards.
That Newark check airman met the standards. Unless you're telling me she only got hired into that position because she's a woman... Which is offensive to her, to other women who've worked hard to earn their check airman letter, and to the women who are not check airmen and desire to become one.
Since somehow her sex "made" United hire an unqualified pilot as a LCA... Why aren't all women check airmen? Why aren't all check airmen women? It's illogical and offensive, but a pervasive disease that I'm glad is being slowly rooted out.
To recapitulate... Because someone is a minority, does not mean they didn't meet the standards. Because someone has an accident, does not mean they were unqualified. Even if they were a minority. If someone, of any demographic, is hired into a position they didn't earn or deserve (multiple checkride failures, etc), then that is a failure of management and not "diversity."
These notions are prevalent in our profession, and very hurtful to the minorities who bust their butts every day to be the best they can be.
Imagine... Showing up to work knowing that if you make a mistake or have an accident or incident, the same colleagues who "Don't see color" will suddenly have lots to say about whether you deserved to be on your position in the first place.
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Your last bit about perceptions is the number one reason affirmative action is a terrible idea and harmful to minorities. If we hired the most qualified regardless of race etc then minorities like myself wouldn’t have to worry about being questioned on whether I earned the job or not!?
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06-04-2021, 09:32 AM
#738
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
I'd be willing to gamble the deed to my condo that more bent metal or other serious accidents have been caused by unqualified WHITE MALES since the beginning of aviation than any other demographic. I could be wrong, but doubt it. *TONGUE IN CHEEK*
Now, were all these white male pilots really unqualified? Most certainly not. Are all accidents a chain of events that if broken would never have happened? Absolutely. We have gone from the hardware being the cause of most accidents to human factors being the #1 driver of incidents/accidents.
Historically there have been mostly white males as pilots. Why? Women and minorities were not given access to the same opportunities as white men. Not allowed to fly in the military or even serve at times. Not to mention the other barriers to entering this field that are socio-economic in nature. That is changing and United is a corporation advancing with the times. They are also legally responsible for the decisions that put pilots in the flight decks of hundred million dollar plus airplanes carrying hundreds of customers. The FAA and insurers have a say as well.
The unqualified argument is a load of **** and insulting to every person hired here who some don't view as fitting the traditional mold or saying this is different than how it's been for many years. Yes, you can read into that how that argument is being used in other segments of life, especially now.
Now, were all these white male pilots really unqualified? Most certainly not. Are all accidents a chain of events that if broken would never have happened? Absolutely. We have gone from the hardware being the cause of most accidents to human factors being the #1 driver of incidents/accidents.
Historically there have been mostly white males as pilots. Why? Women and minorities were not given access to the same opportunities as white men. Not allowed to fly in the military or even serve at times. Not to mention the other barriers to entering this field that are socio-economic in nature. That is changing and United is a corporation advancing with the times. They are also legally responsible for the decisions that put pilots in the flight decks of hundred million dollar plus airplanes carrying hundreds of customers. The FAA and insurers have a say as well.
The unqualified argument is a load of **** and insulting to every person hired here who some don't view as fitting the traditional mold or saying this is different than how it's been for many years. Yes, you can read into that how that argument is being used in other segments of life, especially now.
What is insulting is your using the term white male pilots. How bout we are all just pilots like we are all just Americans?
why all the labels? Traditional mold? I find that term insulting and divisive.
hate to break it to you but there were more as u say “white male pilots” because that’s what the majority of the population was.. It’s changing now because the demographics of the u.s. population is changing. Nothing more nothing less.
Can we please put all the woke garbage and divisive grouping of people away and just hire the best qualified and safest pilots?
Is this concept to hard for some to understand?
06-04-2021, 09:34 AM
#739
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by C130driver
Your last bit about perceptions is the number one reason affirmative action is a terrible idea and harmful to minorities. If we hired the most qualified regardless of race etc then minorities like myself wouldn’t have to worry about being questioned on whether I earned the job
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06-04-2021, 09:41 AM
#740
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by detpilot
We did not lose a new hire due to diversity. That is very offensive...
We lost a new hire due to a crappy pilot and a poor training department, backed up by a poor management who failed to remove said pilot from a position where he could hurt others.
Look at his records... If he was hired at United, regardless of his demographics, and failed THAT many events... It would be a massive failure on the part of our management and training department. Whether he was black, white, woman, or man. No one is able to skip a short cycle here because they are a minority... The standards are the standards.
That Newark check airman met the standards. Unless you're telling me she only got hired into that position because she's a woman... Which is offensive to her, to other women who've worked hard to earn their check airman letter, and to the women who are not check airmen and desire to become one.
Since somehow her sex "made" United hire an unqualified pilot as a LCA... Why aren't all women check airmen? Why aren't all check airmen women? It's illogical and offensive, but a pervasive disease that I'm glad is being slowly rooted out.
To recapitulate... Because someone is a minority, does not mean they didn't meet the standards. Because someone has an accident, does not mean they were unqualified. Even if they were a minority. If someone, of any demographic, is hired into a position they didn't earn or deserve (multiple checkride failures, etc), then that is a failure of management and not "diversity."
These notions are prevalent in our profession, and very hurtful to the minorities who bust their butts every day to be the best they can be.
Imagine... Showing up to work knowing that if you make a mistake or have an accident or incident, the same colleagues who "Don't see color" will suddenly have lots to say about whether you deserved to be on your position in the first place.
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
We lost a new hire due to a crappy pilot and a poor training department, backed up by a poor management who failed to remove said pilot from a position where he could hurt others.
Look at his records... If he was hired at United, regardless of his demographics, and failed THAT many events... It would be a massive failure on the part of our management and training department. Whether he was black, white, woman, or man. No one is able to skip a short cycle here because they are a minority... The standards are the standards.
That Newark check airman met the standards. Unless you're telling me she only got hired into that position because she's a woman... Which is offensive to her, to other women who've worked hard to earn their check airman letter, and to the women who are not check airmen and desire to become one.
Since somehow her sex "made" United hire an unqualified pilot as a LCA... Why aren't all women check airmen? Why aren't all check airmen women? It's illogical and offensive, but a pervasive disease that I'm glad is being slowly rooted out.
To recapitulate... Because someone is a minority, does not mean they didn't meet the standards. Because someone has an accident, does not mean they were unqualified. Even if they were a minority. If someone, of any demographic, is hired into a position they didn't earn or deserve (multiple checkride failures, etc), then that is a failure of management and not "diversity."
These notions are prevalent in our profession, and very hurtful to the minorities who bust their butts every day to be the best they can be.
Imagine... Showing up to work knowing that if you make a mistake or have an accident or incident, the same colleagues who "Don't see color" will suddenly have lots to say about whether you deserved to be on your position in the first place.
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I stand by what I said. Offensive to you or not.
Aviation isn’t like any other cooperation. We need to hire the best and brightest no matter what demographic they fit in.
We aren’t like Coca Cola if you put in the wrong ingredients it just tastes bad….in our industry people die. And for that I’m unapologetic.
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