Originally Posted by C130driver

Your last bit about perceptions is the number one reason affirmative action is a terrible idea and harmful to minorities. If we hired the most qualified regardless of race etc then minorities like myself wouldn’t have to worry about being questioned on whether I earned the job


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Originally Posted by detpilot

We did not lose a new hire due to diversity. That is very offensive...

We lost a new hire due to a crappy pilot and a poor training department, backed up by a poor management who failed to remove said pilot from a position where he could hurt others.


Look at his records... If he was hired at United, regardless of his demographics, and failed THAT many events... It would be a massive failure on the part of our management and training department. Whether he was black, white, woman, or man. No one is able to skip a short cycle here because they are a minority... The standards are the standards.

That Newark check airman met the standards. Unless you're telling me she only got hired into that position because she's a woman... Which is offensive to her, to other women who've worked hard to earn their check airman letter, and to the women who are not check airmen and desire to become one.

Since somehow her sex "made" United hire an unqualified pilot as a LCA... Why aren't all women check airmen? Why aren't all check airmen women? It's illogical and offensive, but a pervasive disease that I'm glad is being slowly rooted out.

To recapitulate... Because someone is a minority, does not mean they didn't meet the standards. Because someone has an accident, does not mean they were unqualified. Even if they were a minority. If someone, of any demographic, is hired into a position they didn't earn or deserve (multiple checkride failures, etc), then that is a failure of management and not "diversity."

These notions are prevalent in our profession, and very hurtful to the minorities who bust their butts every day to be the best they can be.

Imagine... Showing up to work knowing that if you make a mistake or have an accident or incident, the same colleagues who "Don't see color" will suddenly have lots to say about whether you deserved to be on your position in the first place.




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Originally Posted by detpilot

Of course, that accident would never have happened if the check airman was a man. Woman makes a mistake, she's under qualified. You make a mistake, then every excuse in the book applies. Again, this thread is a great example of the reason this program is needed. I can only hope that people who think like you are being removed from the hiring process.

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Originally Posted by detpilot

We did not lose a new hire due to diversity. That is very offensive...

We lost a new hire due to a crappy pilot and a poor training department, backed up by a poor management who failed to remove said pilot from a position where he could hurt others.


Look at his records... If he was hired at United, regardless of his demographics, and failed THAT many events... It would be a massive failure on the part of our management and training department. Whether he was black, white, woman, or man. No one is able to skip a short cycle here because they are a minority... The standards are the standards.

That Newark check airman met the standards. Unless you're telling me she only got hired into that position because she's a woman... Which is offensive to her, to other women who've worked hard to earn their check airman letter, and to the women who are not check airmen and desire to become one.

Since somehow her sex "made" United hire an unqualified pilot as a LCA... Why aren't all women check airmen? Why aren't all check airmen women? It's illogical and offensive, but a pervasive disease that I'm glad is being slowly rooted out.

To recapitulate... Because someone is a minority, does not mean they didn't meet the standards. Because someone has an accident, does not mean they were unqualified. Even if they were a minority. If someone, of any demographic, is hired into a position they didn't earn or deserve (multiple checkride failures, etc), then that is a failure of management and not "diversity."

These notions are prevalent in our profession, and very hurtful to the minorities who bust their butts every day to be the best they can be.

Imagine... Showing up to work knowing that if you make a mistake or have an accident or incident, the same colleagues who "Don't see color" will suddenly have lots to say about whether you deserved to be on your position in the first place.




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Originally Posted by C130driver

Your last bit about perceptions is the number one reason affirmative action is a terrible idea and harmful to minorities. If we hired the most qualified regardless of race etc then minorities like myself wouldn’t have to worry about being questioned on whether I earned the job or not!?


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Originally Posted by Bestglide

Do you think airlines are afraid of lawsuits if they fire certain pilots in today’s woke world? If not then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you

I stand by what I said. Offensive to you or not.

Aviation isn’t like any other cooperation. We need to hire the best and brightest no matter what demographic they fit in.

We aren’t like Coca Cola if you put in the wrong ingredients it just tastes bad….in our industry people die. And for that I’m unapologetic.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Do you know why those presumptions occur in the first place?

Because of the woke BS that the left perpetuates. The last 5 minority pilots I flew with all hate this “diversity and inclusion” quota goals for this very reason and all say the exact same thing - it creates doubt that they only got hired because of their skin color and not their merit. In other words, it takes away from their achievements. You are always leaving a doubt in their minds - “did I really earn this?” and you’re leaving doubt in other people’s minds whereas now anyone regardless of race and sex show up, you automatically presume they’re there on their own merit, after this wokism crap, the question will always be present “merit or race/sex?”

You can shout until you’re blue in the face that they “still earned it” but the reality stands that as long as there is a written and coded preference based on race and sex, that preference alone will always cast doubt on whether that individual has earned his or her spot based on merit or their skin color. And that’s not healthy for anyone.

Tammy Jo earned it. Mimi Tompkins earned it. Lou Freeman earned it. Thousands of others have earned it. Do we really need to take away from their achievements and accomplishments to make our white selves feel virtuous?

Originally Posted by detpilot

All 5 of the minority pilots you've flown with have a problem with the zero hour aviate program trying to intake 50% minority candidates? Of which, only a small percentage will ever become airline pilots, and an even smaller percentage United pilots? That's strange, because most people I fly with either don't know much about the Aviate program or have someone they know who they are trying to get into it. In fact... I don't recall talking about diversity at all on my last few trips. Is that something you like to bring up with the minority pilots?

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Originally Posted by detpilot

All 5 of the minority pilots you've flown with have a problem with the zero hour aviate program trying to intake 50% minority candidates? Of which, only a small percentage will ever become airline pilots, and an even smaller percentage United pilots? That's strange, because most people I fly with either don't know much about the Aviate program or have someone they know who they are trying to get into it. In fact... I don't recall talking about diversity at all on my last few trips. Is that something you like to bring up with the minority pilots?

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