I’ll say subjectively dumb, or at least relatively, considering your well-informed and reasoned approach to pretty much everything else is in direct opposition to your championing of immediate adoption of Delta’s TA as culmination of this negotiating cycle. You in fact attempted to start a poll to presumably confirm your belief that it should be our template as well. Later, you repeatedly misrepresented DALs profit sharing formula (since corrected and apologized, noted) and offered opinion that somehow some vociferous postings of contract desires had you convinced we would drag our negotiations out so long we’d all lose north of $3k/month if we did not immediately approve Delta’s “template” ourselves. While certainly back of envelope math will always support there is a time value of money, and we have TWICE had to take egregious offers off the table, there may also be merit in getting our own ask right — informed by DALs market analysis — before trying to immediately close a deal before some uncertain future downturn. I just don’t understand what your motivation is in so often beating that drum. Saving us from ourselves? I’ll admit you seem to have gotten some information from some source that has allayed your worst fears, so maybe all moot. Regardless, I seriously hold your opinion on all else as well developed and researched, and this just strikes me as incongruent with your typical approach. Except on reserve rules, which is also anachronistic, but otherwise….

 

A well thought out and reasoned response. Careful I think we are setting a new precedent on APC. We might get banned for lowering the level of controversy here

Now, in the words of one of my favorite movie characters: "If I may, I will address some of the accusations you have laid before me . . ."


The attempted poll: I like polls not because I want to "confirm (my) belief", but simply and quite honestly I find learning what the APC hive mind is leaning towards to be most interesting. At times the responses to a poll have been surprising. I goofed and didn't set it up properly because I was in between work flights and on an iPad.

The Delta Profit Sharing: I was told by a senior ALPA person whom I respect that the 16% is not added on, and my posts reflected that information up to the moment I was presented with other evidence. Now, keep in mind that the evidence to the contrary comes from an anonymous individual poster here on APC and does not clearly state the precise opposite of what I was told, but rather merely implies such. Therefore, I admit it appears I was misinformed, but perhaps not. If I get further evidence in the future, either way, I promise to share what I have found. My intent is not to be right. My intent is to learn the facts to be better informed, and my posts merely reflected the best information I had to date.

Lastly, the crux of the matter. Yes, I 100% feel if we are offered a Delta like or even a Delta -1 deal we should have a vote and not have the MEC push the negotiations out indefinitely. However . . . and my bad for not making this clearer in my posts . . . we most definitely should ASK for Delta + a bunch, but I stand by my thought process and earlier comment that IF the company offer comes in Delta equal or even Delta minus then UAL pilots need to understand just how much each month of added negotiation is costing them personally. I am not certain that this concept is fully understood. Furthermore I believe that if the negotiations went all the way to a final conclusion in front of the NMB then we would most definitely NOT come out ahead, but this opinion clearly is not shared by all. I stand by my advice with a new caveat: Ask for Delta +10 but don't be surprised if the company offers Delta -1 and don't be too quick to say "NO" if that happens.

Regardless, thank you for the measured response. It was most appreciated, and I hope my explanations help make my views on our contract a little less "dumb".

 

Also fair. But I do not think that a Delta minus proposal would enjoy a welcome reception from the “vocal minority”. I think calls to start from scratch are more hyperbole than reality, and I am cautiously optimistic that soft money improvements will create the bulk of value. The operation still has to run efficiently, but this contract should be all about the carrot after too many iterations of stick. Complete those surveys so they can finalize offer for next week!

 

There is a price for that. And I'll add another often unlooked question.. What do you do about trades?
You get a schedule and PSC and then trade out of it.. and what happens to the PSC?
Also, is it duty time? Will a lawyer some day state that you flew as PSC from xyz up to EWR and so the company knew you were already "on the clock". Keep in mind, I bring up "On the Clock" because the company is getting into our personal lives more and more. If you are in uniform and flying to your trip as a Positive Space Commute, do you now represent the company?
Our company and (hopefully) our union know exactly how many mis commutes there are, and if this is a real problem. And the company already PSC's on weather days.. so is it something to negotiate for? Just asking~

PS) I know it's not technically Duty. But it again opens a can of worms as to what they will call 'duty' in a court of law.

People in base would have a cow ONLY if they weren't also given a piece of that pie.. ie, people who commute do it primarily for the tax purposes. They accept a bit of hardship in their lives for a lot less taxes. Sure, maybe they need a hotel on occasion (as a line holder).. but what about the locals who pay higher amounts of taxes?
If PSC was given to our commuters, would it be fair to say that $500 a month be given to the locals? What will be the cost of PSC?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
As someone who (currently) lives Local, I am actually not against PSC. Just a realist that understands that there is a cost associated with it.
I was always told that about 80% of the pilots in certain bases commute (not Guam!). So, if we are going to do something for the 80% and barely anything for the 20% that live local, should the same hold true for the discussion about Reserve? 80% (or so) are line holders.. only 20%ish are on Reserve. In a career, how long do you think/expect to sit reserve vs. being a lineholder?
Spend more negotiation efforts on the masses and what's left, on the smaller groups?
(lol.. see what I did there)

Keep in mind, would PSC help out the Reserve/Short Call issue we are having now? (I don't think so).

There was that rumor back in early 2022 about the (Tumi) TA and PSC. Turns out it was false.
Delta didn't negotiate it in their current TA and not sure of any major passenger carrier that has it. Not saying it can't be done.. just that no one has pushed for it.
What we SHOULD push for is a Jumpseat agreement like Delta has (with some caveats). You book the jumpseat when you get your trip and it's yours.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hope everyone is filling out the union survey. Great to see just a few items being questioned- and a space to put down your own thoughts. Even if you don't agree with the choices, you can still list them and then write in what you really want.

Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract~

 

Wrong. You were given contractual language and numerous Delta pilots among others told you were wrong. You also characterized your supposed source as NC, a rep and now a senior ALPA person. Did you go back to whoever it was and tell them they were misinformed? Unfortunately, this example of you persisting in pushing misinformation is not the exception as dmeg pointed out.

 

What do you mean by "wrong"? I was not given contractual language, and I ask you to offer an example of me "pushing misinformation" other than this. You have a long history of "misinformation" that I will happily quote if you wish, but I am eager to see you pulling quotes from me of other "misinformation".

EDIT: In looking over your posting history, I think we have more in common than not. I'm not sure why you felt a need to attack me online as you seem closely aligned with ALPA politics of which I am far removed. However, it seems you are particularly disturbed by my comments regarding profit sharing. Okay, I concede. You are correct in that Delta's profit sharing is superior to ours. Now, what beef do you continue to have as it seems you thrive on confrontation rather than team building. I am truly interested in your response. As I like to imagine that truth brings cohesion, and lies do the opposite so put me down on the side of truth even when I'm proven wrong.

 

That's not true for corporations, is it?

 

Senior pilots (& NB Captains) get first pick of the unicorns!

 

Damit all to hell, I know I'm gonna end up with not only a ****ty color, but probably a bent horn and 3 legs~
I'll get em Next Time!

 

Come on now Hockey, tell it straight. Those sections were worked on and negotiated. They were not settled. But to say they had not been negotiated is false.

What is true is that the mediator told Delta to bring your best offer. This is what they brought. Mediator said it was above the “Zone of reasonableness”. So the MEC took it. IF they should have done it is up for debate, but it’s what we have now.