We are not close
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
Also hearing this…I may or may not be in this same boat.
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 122
This ^^^^^^^^^
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 425
Threats do nothing. If they are unhappy with their compensation under the current contract, they should vote with their feet.
#64
AA CEO message to AA pilots
In the world of CEOs poking at each other perhaps this will be a nudge to get us one step closer. IDK but hopefully. Of course no mention of QWL improvements from Isom, at least not in that article.
EDIT: I found this in the AA forum. Speaking with my LEC Cap rep via email it appears the last line is the sticking point for us as the company and ALPA are VERY far apart on what is "the quality life and benefits that matter most to you".
To match Delta's deal, Isom said American pilots would receive on average pay increases of 21% in the first year of contract. Total pay increases in the fourth year of the contract deal would be 40%, he said.
The Atlanta-based carrier's new contract provides a 34% cumulative pay increase, a lump-sum one-time payment, reduced health insurance premiums and improvements in holiday pay, vacation, company contributions to 401(k) and work rules.
EDIT: I found this in the AA forum. Speaking with my LEC Cap rep via email it appears the last line is the sticking point for us as the company and ALPA are VERY far apart on what is "the quality life and benefits that matter most to you".
Hi everyone, Delta’s Pilots recently ratified a new for your deal that it is unprecedented in the history of collective bargaining, profoundly changing the economics of Delta’s pilot career; and that’s not just for Delta’s pilots, that deal with determine compensation benefits, and quality of life for pilot across the rest of the industry. That means something extraordinary for American’s Pilots. That’s because our commitment, my commitment, remains unchanged; Our team members, including our pilot will be paid well, and they will be paid competitively.
Let me be clear, American is prepared to match Delta pay rates and provide American’s pilots with the same profit-sharing formula as Delta’s pilots. American pilot’s would receive pay increases of an average 21% in the first year of the new contract; Begin participation in a much richer profit sharing program and receive a bump in the companies annual contribution to your 401(k) in a second year of the deal. The total pay increase for pilots on average is 40% in the fourth year of the deal. Let me give you a few examples of what this would mean by the end of the agreement, factoring in base salary and increase 401(k) contributions from the company; a narrow body, captain at the top of the scale would make $475,000 a year or $135,000 more a year than they do today. A widebody Captain of the top of the scale order in $590,000 a year that’s $170,000 more a year than they earn today; and participation in the new profit-sharing program will increase the payout pool from 5% of pretax earnings too 10%, and up to 20% earnings about $2.5 billion.
And it’s not just about Delta pay, it’s about making sure this works for American’s Pilot. You would see significant improvements to scheduling related and quality of life items. That means improved trip construction, and more certainty when it comes to replacement flying and recovery obligation.
A deal like this would be a game changer for our pilots. It would be worth more than $7 billion in incremental compensation, benefits, and quality life improvements over the term of the four year agreement. This would allow you to join Delta’s pilots is the industries leader’s in pay, but with more quality of life improvements unique to American Airlines. It’s what you deserve and it can be negotiated and made available quickly. Like you I’m extraordinarily excited about the coming new contract and all that it means for you and American.
As we proceed down the negotiation homestretch, I plan to reach out frequently, share updates and make sure you have the company’s perspective and our unequivocal commitment to completing a new contract expeditiously. I want to assure you that there’s no question of our intent; That is we want you to be paid as well as your peers. We want you to have the quality life and benefits that matter most to you and we don’t want you to have to wait, Now lets get this deal done.
Thanks for listening and thanks for all you do every day.
~Robert Isom
Let me be clear, American is prepared to match Delta pay rates and provide American’s pilots with the same profit-sharing formula as Delta’s pilots. American pilot’s would receive pay increases of an average 21% in the first year of the new contract; Begin participation in a much richer profit sharing program and receive a bump in the companies annual contribution to your 401(k) in a second year of the deal. The total pay increase for pilots on average is 40% in the fourth year of the deal. Let me give you a few examples of what this would mean by the end of the agreement, factoring in base salary and increase 401(k) contributions from the company; a narrow body, captain at the top of the scale would make $475,000 a year or $135,000 more a year than they do today. A widebody Captain of the top of the scale order in $590,000 a year that’s $170,000 more a year than they earn today; and participation in the new profit-sharing program will increase the payout pool from 5% of pretax earnings too 10%, and up to 20% earnings about $2.5 billion.
And it’s not just about Delta pay, it’s about making sure this works for American’s Pilot. You would see significant improvements to scheduling related and quality of life items. That means improved trip construction, and more certainty when it comes to replacement flying and recovery obligation.
A deal like this would be a game changer for our pilots. It would be worth more than $7 billion in incremental compensation, benefits, and quality life improvements over the term of the four year agreement. This would allow you to join Delta’s pilots is the industries leader’s in pay, but with more quality of life improvements unique to American Airlines. It’s what you deserve and it can be negotiated and made available quickly. Like you I’m extraordinarily excited about the coming new contract and all that it means for you and American.
As we proceed down the negotiation homestretch, I plan to reach out frequently, share updates and make sure you have the company’s perspective and our unequivocal commitment to completing a new contract expeditiously. I want to assure you that there’s no question of our intent; That is we want you to be paid as well as your peers. We want you to have the quality life and benefits that matter most to you and we don’t want you to have to wait, Now lets get this deal done.
Thanks for listening and thanks for all you do every day.
~Robert Isom
Last edited by Sunvox; 03-08-2023 at 04:15 AM.
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 376
I'm hearing the senior folks saying "I'm waiting on the contract" and the junior/commuters are saying "I'm waiting to see how IE PBS works out". I would not expect significant movement out of the building until after the summer flying season. If we don't have a contract by then the IEs will probably play in the big fall bids setting up next years staffing and then pull the trigger. Nothing happens overnight EXCEPT the flood gates closed when TUMI TA was announced which temporarily solved SKs problem without him spending a dime out of pocket. This is why some form of full retro is important...otherwise he will be getting years and years worth of labor at a discount until a deal is signed.
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 376
I'm not sure if this is true - the status quo prior to the TUMI TA was continuous river of PIs leaving. Would that data not be considered? The only thing that stopped them from leaving was the conclusion of negotiations and a TA. Staffing stabilized due to massive hiring and the TA vote pending but PIs electing to exercise their bids to return to the line would be a return to the climate that was in place while we were negotiating last year.
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 104
Even in an unrealistic world where the company agreed to our ask on a compounded and pensionable retro payment to account for the lack of raises in hourly pay rates, they will still have saved money over the last 4 yrs. Unless that retro payment includes compensation for all of the soft pay and QOL improvements that are contained in the new contract, then the company will still have ended up operating at a discount from when it became amendable until DOS. Those items have a significant cost to the company which is why they are a sticking point in the negotiations.
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
It is against the APC Forum Rules for forum users to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. This applies to the advocacy of ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. It is irrelevant whether the union itself has anything to do with the action.
Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions.
The rules on APC have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts to secure industry leading
Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions.
The rules on APC have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts to secure industry leading
Unfortunately we have many pilots that have not gone through Section 6 negotiations in their past. They don’t understand the peril that they can put on their Union and their pilot groups by saying stupid stuff. Remember, what you say can and will be used against you!!!
We have a rule book that we MUST follow!!!
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