I find the Delta conversations to be more civil than ours in general, so people in glass houses…

 

And we have a lot to learn from DALPA so please keep posting Delta pilots.

 

Agreed. So long as it's not tit-for-tat personal attacks which is what was going on.

And, NO, the Delta forums are far from civil....read the " Age 67" thread if you think I'm wrong.

 

they’re just the same level of civil, I agree. Ha.

not directed at you:

Web boards are easy to throw down on but why people keep pumping “tempered expectations”, “Why should we get paid the same as Delta or more”, or shuffling money off QOL to pay for rates, types of mentalities. It’s ridiculous. Now is the time to get this right. For the profession. Delta raised the bar but barely. At least it was under the guise of QoL enhancement plus pay rates, no concessions. How that happened is marketplace. We sold ourselves short at DL (pay-rates are lower than should be, abandoned full retro and retirement almost completely, etc.) We took the “last and best offer” from the company because of pressure asserted by mediator. Another eye roll here. Mediator said what they needed to to get a deal done and go home. Could’ve (likely more time under mediation) done better. Many argue against that with TVM, mediation or parking for years (eyes roll). It comes down to solidarity. Hang together and this works. Hang alone and…hang.

 

Also, DALPA was fighting the fact that there was no help from "industry peers" when it came to cost structure. I sincerely hope UALPA does not sell itself short. Need a massive leapfrog here. Stay the course. Keep fighting.

 

First Kirby isn’t in panic mode I think he’s grinning his way through the weekends as we bust our assess for the good leading the way.

havent heard anybody talking about sick time accruals but we really need to match Delta on it too. At 20 years they have 4X more sick time a year than UAL…think about that.
INDUSTRY LEADING NOW!

 

"Sick time accruals" . The term could be a little misleading. In my book, Delta doesn't really "accrue" sick time since you don't accrue it and roll it over to the next year. It is a yearly "use it or lose it" plan year by year. Yes, each year has more hours than UAL but over the long haul, if a UAL pilot doesn't need or stratgecially use al lot of sick time, they will have a sizeable sick time accrual at end of career. So, to me, sometimes DAL better, sometimes UAL system better. It's analogous to life insurance. Are you betting you are going to be healthy or ??????

 

It was retro from January 1, 2023. The big number doesn’t say retro. It says “pilot payment.” It wasn’t retro. It was a $750 million dollar signing bonus to our pilot group.

 

Sorry, but that is an obviously false equivalency. Delta's sick leave, STD and LTD as a whole are FAR superior to United's. We don't even have a STD plan. What good is a large accrual if you don't use it, and these programs are for when you are sick or injured not when we are healthy.

 

Well, if you will read my post I addressed "sick leave accrual". Nothing more nothing less. I am pretty sure I didn't wrap STD and LTD into the discussion did I ? I was only making sure the scanners on APC didn't assume that Delta got 280 hrs sick hours/year and accrued it year after year as UAL does.

The UAL possible large sick leave accrual(healthy individual) could enable a UAL pilot to cash in at retirement(pennies on the dollar) or sick out for the last couple of years, thereby cashing in on the whole value. So, lots of ways to skin the cat. Establish a UAL STD, fix the LTD and make payout of accrued sick leave 1:1, OR migrate to what Delta has in some form (sick leave, STD and LTD).

It's a little disingenuous to say Delta is superior at this stage because you are comparing a new contract(Delta) to a UAL contract that is 7 years old.

So, I think your "false equivalency arrow" shot in my direction misses the mark.